Have your say on Wimbledon to Sutton Tramlink extension as four possible routes are revealed

A map showing the possible routes

A map showing the possible routes

First published in News
Last updated
Sutton Guardian: Photograph of the Author by , Chief Reporter

Four new routes a tram link between Sutton and Wimbledon could take have been revealed - and you can have your say on them.

Click here for a larger version of the map

Sutton and Merton Councils have come up with plans to extend Tramlink to connect Sutton with South Wimbledon Station. 

The long-running ambition has been to have a straight link between Sutton town centre and South Wimbledon underground station going via the St Nicholas Way, Angel Hill, Rosehill, St Helier Avenue, Morden underground station and Morden Road.

But now the councils have come up with four adjusted proposals, one of which would remove a direct link to St Helier Hospital and another would take the route straight through the pedestrianised section of Sutton High Street.

Neighbours and businesses have been invited to tell  the councils what they think of the proposals at a series of events coming up next month.

Councillor Colin Hall said: "An extension to the Tramlink could provide quicker and cleaner public transport links for Sutton as well as boosting local business and creating jobs.

"This would of course be a major development and it is important that our residents have their say on the proposed extension. Their views will be shared with Transport for London before deciding the next steps."

Merton Council cabinet member for environmental sustainability and regeneration Councillor Andrew Judge added: "An extension to Tramlink, connecting a significant area of the borough to the major transport hubs of Wimbledon and Sutton could provide quick, easy and clean public transport for many people.

"We want to hear from residents and businesses about what they think of the proposals. We will then ensure that residents’ views are shared with TfL and taken into account in deciding on where a Tramlink extension would go.

"Our preferred route would run mainly on-road between the existing Morden Road tram stop, along Morden Hall Road, St Helier Avenue, up to Rose Hill and on to Sutton town centre."

Sutton Council has come up with two proposals and Merton Council has done the same. Sutton's two proposals are the removal of the direct link to the hospital, which would cut journey times, costs and traffic disruption, and taking the route directly along the High Street, which would also cut costs but would affect the shopping area.

Merton's two suggestions are linking the tram route to South Wimbledon station, which would add costs, and taking the route through Nursery Road playing fields and Abbey Recreation Ground, which would be less expensive but would impact on open space.

The scheme is dependent on Sutton Council and Sutton businesses coming up with a funding programme that would attract matched funding from Transport for London. Other areas, including Crystal Palace, are also bidding for funding to extend the Tramlink, which already serves Croydon and part of Merton.

The consultation events will take place on Thursday, July 31, from 4.30pm to 7.30pm at Merton Civic Centre in London Road, on Saturday, August 2, from 10am to 1pm at the David Weir Leisure Centre in Middleton Road, Carshalton, on Wednesday, August 6, from 4.30pm to 7.30pm at Sutton Civic Centre in St Nicholas Way and on Thursday, August 7, from 10am to 1pm at Sutton Salvation Army Church and Community Centre in Benhill Avenue. 
       

Comments (43)

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2:37pm Tue 22 Jul 14

andrewjames1982 says...

Can anyone even read that map?
Can anyone even read that map? andrewjames1982
  • Score: 5

2:55pm Tue 22 Jul 14

LeslieCB says...

Any chance you could put up a map that is actually readable on-line (ie. click the small image you have and it downloads a , higher-resolution version).
Any chance you could put up a map that is actually readable on-line (ie. click the small image you have and it downloads a , higher-resolution version). LeslieCB
  • Score: 7

3:04pm Tue 22 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

I quite like the idea of running the line down Sutton High Street. Disruption during construction would have to be minimised, but once done it could provide a boost to the shops there. The High St is great, but it is bit hidden away. And, don't forget, buses and cars used to use the High St before the mid-eighties, so why not a tram every few minutes now?
I quite like the idea of running the line down Sutton High Street. Disruption during construction would have to be minimised, but once done it could provide a boost to the shops there. The High St is great, but it is bit hidden away. And, don't forget, buses and cars used to use the High St before the mid-eighties, so why not a tram every few minutes now? ResidentTony
  • Score: 24

3:41pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Niki R says...

I remember the chaos and damage to businesses when they built it through Croydon. I'm not sure the ailing Sutton High Street would survive that disruption.
I remember the chaos and damage to businesses when they built it through Croydon. I'm not sure the ailing Sutton High Street would survive that disruption. Niki R
  • Score: -16

3:58pm Tue 22 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,
Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way, ResidentTony
  • Score: 25

5:02pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Marie from Sutton says...

How about extending to the ICR and the Marsden which are the biggest employers in Sutton and soon to be redeveloped Sutton Hospital as a European centre of excellence for educational science.
Makes sense.
Cannot see the project happening though as heard last year that it would cost hundreds of millions and would require funding from local shops / companies.
Not going to happen. A bit like the redevelopment of St Helier Hospital.
How about extending to the ICR and the Marsden which are the biggest employers in Sutton and soon to be redeveloped Sutton Hospital as a European centre of excellence for educational science. Makes sense. Cannot see the project happening though as heard last year that it would cost hundreds of millions and would require funding from local shops / companies. Not going to happen. A bit like the redevelopment of St Helier Hospital. Marie from Sutton
  • Score: 10

5:43pm Tue 22 Jul 14

alphabeti says...

Already in the morning there is a massive scrum at Wimbledon station when a train on the Wimbledon loop comes in at the same time as a tram. If they are going to add additional tram services into Wimbledon they really need to look at ways to ease congestion on the platforms, stairs and footbridge. How about building a second footbridge for anyone wishing to change platforms?
Already in the morning there is a massive scrum at Wimbledon station when a train on the Wimbledon loop comes in at the same time as a tram. If they are going to add additional tram services into Wimbledon they really need to look at ways to ease congestion on the platforms, stairs and footbridge. How about building a second footbridge for anyone wishing to change platforms? alphabeti
  • Score: 12

6:23pm Tue 22 Jul 14

notrem says...

Why not a tram link to Raynes Park and West Wimbledon like the old days ? Another example of Labour in Merton just takes from the rich in Wimbledon to give to the not-exactly-poor Mitcham. Forget about UKIP we want WinW, Wimbledon in Wandsworth.
Why not a tram link to Raynes Park and West Wimbledon like the old days ? Another example of Labour in Merton just takes from the rich in Wimbledon to give to the not-exactly-poor Mitcham. Forget about UKIP we want WinW, Wimbledon in Wandsworth. notrem
  • Score: -14

8:31pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Pizza Burger says...

Absolutely support the tramlink extending to Sutton town centre and the high street! Would be the best thing to happen so Sutton perhaps ever! :-)
Absolutely support the tramlink extending to Sutton town centre and the high street! Would be the best thing to happen so Sutton perhaps ever! :-) Pizza Burger
  • Score: -3

10:51pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Lh34572 says...

I think it is an absolute waste of money! I am a resident of st helier avenue and the thought of a tram running up here is crazy. The transport links from morden to Sutton are more then adequate, why not regenerate morden as promised for years? Rather then bidding for a tram extension that is not necessary? The disruption for us residents already living on a main road, with noisy traffic and vibrations would be ridiculous, tram stops up the length of st Helier avenue with youths hanging out at each given stop is unthinkable. Hopefully this doesn't ever catch on and we can carry on as we do now.
I think it is an absolute waste of money! I am a resident of st helier avenue and the thought of a tram running up here is crazy. The transport links from morden to Sutton are more then adequate, why not regenerate morden as promised for years? Rather then bidding for a tram extension that is not necessary? The disruption for us residents already living on a main road, with noisy traffic and vibrations would be ridiculous, tram stops up the length of st Helier avenue with youths hanging out at each given stop is unthinkable. Hopefully this doesn't ever catch on and we can carry on as we do now. Lh34572
  • Score: -15

8:12am Wed 23 Jul 14

David7 says...

Interesting that Sutton Council prefers an option with no direct link to St Helier Hospital. Do they know something we don’t?
Interesting that Sutton Council prefers an option with no direct link to St Helier Hospital. Do they know something we don’t? David7
  • Score: 7

8:55am Wed 23 Jul 14

Sir Chuffsalot says...

I would love to have my say. But yet again Sutton Guardian publish a picture that is so small you can't even read the detail. When will they start making these pictures links that you can click on to view at a sensible size?!!
I would love to have my say. But yet again Sutton Guardian publish a picture that is so small you can't even read the detail. When will they start making these pictures links that you can click on to view at a sensible size?!! Sir Chuffsalot
  • Score: 5

9:00am Wed 23 Jul 14

Sir Chuffsalot says...

It should be extended to Sutton. They should also conside creating a larger loop that joins up with the Waddon branch too, perahps along Carshalton Road. Carshalton High Street, Croydon Road, etc... Sending it down the High Street in Sutton is not a good idea. It will be such a stuttering stop/start journey. Using the bus lanes on Throwley Way and St Nicholas Way is a far better idea.
It should be extended to Sutton. They should also conside creating a larger loop that joins up with the Waddon branch too, perahps along Carshalton Road. Carshalton High Street, Croydon Road, etc... Sending it down the High Street in Sutton is not a good idea. It will be such a stuttering stop/start journey. Using the bus lanes on Throwley Way and St Nicholas Way is a far better idea. Sir Chuffsalot
  • Score: -7

10:01am Wed 23 Jul 14

Niki R says...

ResidentTony wrote:
Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,
Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.
[quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,[/p][/quote]Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago. Niki R
  • Score: -4

11:39am Wed 23 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

Niki R wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,
Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.
What good did that negative and misleading comment do? Croydon and Kingston are far bigger than Sutton, so obviously have more shops. But Sutton is a good choice for people who appreciate its less hurried atmosphere with plenty of coffee shops to take a breather in. Politicians like you should stop talking Sutton down. You seem to want Sutton to have a bad image, so you can win your seat next time round. Everything you write seems politically motivated - sometimes I agree with you despite this, but this time I definitely do not.

Regarding your expressed concern about the ability of shops to survive improvement works, the chains might take a short term hit, but would be prepared to for the long term benefits. As for the independents, they're in Sutton precisely because they can compete successfully with the chains. To take one example: Cafe Kiko and Tazza (both independent) are always busy despite the presence of Caffe Nero x 2, Costa, Starbucks and Patisserie Valerie. So independents will be fine if they are competitive.
[quote][p][bold]Niki R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,[/p][/quote]Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.[/p][/quote]What good did that negative and misleading comment do? Croydon and Kingston are far bigger than Sutton, so obviously have more shops. But Sutton is a good choice for people who appreciate its less hurried atmosphere with plenty of coffee shops to take a breather in. Politicians like you should stop talking Sutton down. You seem to want Sutton to have a bad image, so you can win your seat next time round. Everything you write seems politically motivated - sometimes I agree with you despite this, but this time I definitely do not. Regarding your expressed concern about the ability of shops to survive improvement works, the chains might take a short term hit, but would be prepared to for the long term benefits. As for the independents, they're in Sutton precisely because they can compete successfully with the chains. To take one example: Cafe Kiko and Tazza (both independent) are always busy despite the presence of Caffe Nero x 2, Costa, Starbucks and Patisserie Valerie. So independents will be fine if they are competitive. ResidentTony
  • Score: 4

1:06pm Wed 23 Jul 14

Krissi says...

they could do it if they learned from the chaos they caused lowering the services and laying the track in Croydon- in fact if we were really lucky it will bring people into Sutton who maybe had trouble travelling on buses as I must admit I prefer trams to buses if I am using a shopping trolley or when my son was a baby - a buggy
they could do it if they learned from the chaos they caused lowering the services and laying the track in Croydon- in fact if we were really lucky it will bring people into Sutton who maybe had trouble travelling on buses as I must admit I prefer trams to buses if I am using a shopping trolley or when my son was a baby - a buggy Krissi
  • Score: 8

1:33pm Wed 23 Jul 14

LiberalsOut says...

Lh34572 wrote:
I think it is an absolute waste of money! I am a resident of st helier avenue and the thought of a tram running up here is crazy. The transport links from morden to Sutton are more then adequate, why not regenerate morden as promised for years? Rather then bidding for a tram extension that is not necessary? The disruption for us residents already living on a main road, with noisy traffic and vibrations would be ridiculous, tram stops up the length of st Helier avenue with youths hanging out at each given stop is unthinkable. Hopefully this doesn't ever catch on and we can carry on as we do now.
You are one of the few sensible voices
Waste of money - plenty of transport links here already
As usual not thought through
[quote][p][bold]Lh34572[/bold] wrote: I think it is an absolute waste of money! I am a resident of st helier avenue and the thought of a tram running up here is crazy. The transport links from morden to Sutton are more then adequate, why not regenerate morden as promised for years? Rather then bidding for a tram extension that is not necessary? The disruption for us residents already living on a main road, with noisy traffic and vibrations would be ridiculous, tram stops up the length of st Helier avenue with youths hanging out at each given stop is unthinkable. Hopefully this doesn't ever catch on and we can carry on as we do now.[/p][/quote]You are one of the few sensible voices Waste of money - plenty of transport links here already As usual not thought through LiberalsOut
  • Score: 9

1:40pm Wed 23 Jul 14

LiberalsOut says...

Niki R wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,
Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.
Another shop is closing this weekend in the High Street (HMV)
This is just another con to feel you are invoved in the process
Who is around on a Thursday between 10 and 1 - the unemployed and retired
There have been so many revamps of the High Street it looks worse than when I moved here in 1978
[quote][p][bold]Niki R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,[/p][/quote]Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.[/p][/quote]Another shop is closing this weekend in the High Street (HMV) This is just another con to feel you are invoved in the process Who is around on a Thursday between 10 and 1 - the unemployed and retired There have been so many revamps of the High Street it looks worse than when I moved here in 1978 LiberalsOut
  • Score: -3

1:44pm Wed 23 Jul 14

LiberalsOut says...

ResidentTony wrote:
Niki R wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,
Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.
What good did that negative and misleading comment do? Croydon and Kingston are far bigger than Sutton, so obviously have more shops. But Sutton is a good choice for people who appreciate its less hurried atmosphere with plenty of coffee shops to take a breather in. Politicians like you should stop talking Sutton down. You seem to want Sutton to have a bad image, so you can win your seat next time round. Everything you write seems politically motivated - sometimes I agree with you despite this, but this time I definitely do not.

Regarding your expressed concern about the ability of shops to survive improvement works, the chains might take a short term hit, but would be prepared to for the long term benefits. As for the independents, they're in Sutton precisely because they can compete successfully with the chains. To take one example: Cafe Kiko and Tazza (both independent) are always busy despite the presence of Caffe Nero x 2, Costa, Starbucks and Patisserie Valerie. So independents will be fine if they are competitive.
Only the Labour Party are polically motivated then?
I think you need to open your eyes matey - Lib Dems are the worst of them all
[quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Niki R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,[/p][/quote]Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.[/p][/quote]What good did that negative and misleading comment do? Croydon and Kingston are far bigger than Sutton, so obviously have more shops. But Sutton is a good choice for people who appreciate its less hurried atmosphere with plenty of coffee shops to take a breather in. Politicians like you should stop talking Sutton down. You seem to want Sutton to have a bad image, so you can win your seat next time round. Everything you write seems politically motivated - sometimes I agree with you despite this, but this time I definitely do not. Regarding your expressed concern about the ability of shops to survive improvement works, the chains might take a short term hit, but would be prepared to for the long term benefits. As for the independents, they're in Sutton precisely because they can compete successfully with the chains. To take one example: Cafe Kiko and Tazza (both independent) are always busy despite the presence of Caffe Nero x 2, Costa, Starbucks and Patisserie Valerie. So independents will be fine if they are competitive.[/p][/quote]Only the Labour Party are polically motivated then? I think you need to open your eyes matey - Lib Dems are the worst of them all LiberalsOut
  • Score: -3

1:50pm Wed 23 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

LiberalsOut wrote:
Lh34572 wrote:
I think it is an absolute waste of money! I am a resident of st helier avenue and the thought of a tram running up here is crazy. The transport links from morden to Sutton are more then adequate, why not regenerate morden as promised for years? Rather then bidding for a tram extension that is not necessary? The disruption for us residents already living on a main road, with noisy traffic and vibrations would be ridiculous, tram stops up the length of st Helier avenue with youths hanging out at each given stop is unthinkable. Hopefully this doesn't ever catch on and we can carry on as we do now.
You are one of the few sensible voices
Waste of money - plenty of transport links here already
As usual not thought through
Err, not thought through? Really?? It's been thought about for the best part of ten years. Now's the time for action - bring the trams back to Sutton. The sort of people who don't want trams now would probably have been again the railways in the 19th century.
[quote][p][bold]LiberalsOut[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lh34572[/bold] wrote: I think it is an absolute waste of money! I am a resident of st helier avenue and the thought of a tram running up here is crazy. The transport links from morden to Sutton are more then adequate, why not regenerate morden as promised for years? Rather then bidding for a tram extension that is not necessary? The disruption for us residents already living on a main road, with noisy traffic and vibrations would be ridiculous, tram stops up the length of st Helier avenue with youths hanging out at each given stop is unthinkable. Hopefully this doesn't ever catch on and we can carry on as we do now.[/p][/quote]You are one of the few sensible voices Waste of money - plenty of transport links here already As usual not thought through[/p][/quote]Err, not thought through? Really?? It's been thought about for the best part of ten years. Now's the time for action - bring the trams back to Sutton. The sort of people who don't want trams now would probably have been again the railways in the 19th century. ResidentTony
  • Score: -3

2:17pm Wed 23 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

LiberalsOut wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
Niki R wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,
Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.
What good did that negative and misleading comment do? Croydon and Kingston are far bigger than Sutton, so obviously have more shops. But Sutton is a good choice for people who appreciate its less hurried atmosphere with plenty of coffee shops to take a breather in. Politicians like you should stop talking Sutton down. You seem to want Sutton to have a bad image, so you can win your seat next time round. Everything you write seems politically motivated - sometimes I agree with you despite this, but this time I definitely do not.

Regarding your expressed concern about the ability of shops to survive improvement works, the chains might take a short term hit, but would be prepared to for the long term benefits. As for the independents, they're in Sutton precisely because they can compete successfully with the chains. To take one example: Cafe Kiko and Tazza (both independent) are always busy despite the presence of Caffe Nero x 2, Costa, Starbucks and Patisserie Valerie. So independents will be fine if they are competitive.
Only the Labour Party are polically motivated then?
I think you need to open your eyes matey - Lib Dems are the worst of them all
I am not saying that only the Labour party are politically motivated. The Tories made a concerted effort to rubbish Sutton in the Spring, but failed. I am sure the Liberal Democrats would do the same if they were in opposition here. So I wish opposition politicians would stop trying to distort genuine debate on these comment boards. To call the High St a dead zone is a lie and plain mischievous. A politician who claims to be standing up for independent high street shops is actually doing them a disservice by using such derogatory comments about the high street in which they are located. If she carries on like that, the shops in question will be closed down before the Tramlink construction phase even starts!
[quote][p][bold]LiberalsOut[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Niki R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,[/p][/quote]Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.[/p][/quote]What good did that negative and misleading comment do? Croydon and Kingston are far bigger than Sutton, so obviously have more shops. But Sutton is a good choice for people who appreciate its less hurried atmosphere with plenty of coffee shops to take a breather in. Politicians like you should stop talking Sutton down. You seem to want Sutton to have a bad image, so you can win your seat next time round. Everything you write seems politically motivated - sometimes I agree with you despite this, but this time I definitely do not. Regarding your expressed concern about the ability of shops to survive improvement works, the chains might take a short term hit, but would be prepared to for the long term benefits. As for the independents, they're in Sutton precisely because they can compete successfully with the chains. To take one example: Cafe Kiko and Tazza (both independent) are always busy despite the presence of Caffe Nero x 2, Costa, Starbucks and Patisserie Valerie. So independents will be fine if they are competitive.[/p][/quote]Only the Labour Party are polically motivated then? I think you need to open your eyes matey - Lib Dems are the worst of them all[/p][/quote]I am not saying that only the Labour party are politically motivated. The Tories made a concerted effort to rubbish Sutton in the Spring, but failed. I am sure the Liberal Democrats would do the same if they were in opposition here. So I wish opposition politicians would stop trying to distort genuine debate on these comment boards. To call the High St a dead zone is a lie and plain mischievous. A politician who claims to be standing up for independent high street shops is actually doing them a disservice by using such derogatory comments about the high street in which they are located. If she carries on like that, the shops in question will be closed down before the Tramlink construction phase even starts! ResidentTony
  • Score: 19

2:28pm Wed 23 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

LiberalsOut wrote:
Niki R wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,
Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.
Another shop is closing this weekend in the High Street (HMV)
This is just another con to feel you are invoved in the process
Who is around on a Thursday between 10 and 1 - the unemployed and retired
There have been so many revamps of the High Street it looks worse than when I moved here in 1978
The very sad closure of HMV is not down to Sutton High St. In fact our branch of this sadly loss making chain has survived a lot longer than the Epsom and Croydon branches which closed down a couple of years. Music stores are the most hit by the rise of Amazon and I-Tunes etc. I was told by the staff in HMV that a shoe shop is opening in its place - shoes being a product you need to try on before purchase!
[quote][p][bold]LiberalsOut[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Niki R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,[/p][/quote]Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.[/p][/quote]Another shop is closing this weekend in the High Street (HMV) This is just another con to feel you are invoved in the process Who is around on a Thursday between 10 and 1 - the unemployed and retired There have been so many revamps of the High Street it looks worse than when I moved here in 1978[/p][/quote]The very sad closure of HMV is not down to Sutton High St. In fact our branch of this sadly loss making chain has survived a lot longer than the Epsom and Croydon branches which closed down a couple of years. Music stores are the most hit by the rise of Amazon and I-Tunes etc. I was told by the staff in HMV that a shoe shop is opening in its place - shoes being a product you need to try on before purchase! ResidentTony
  • Score: 13

2:31pm Wed 23 Jul 14

1localman says...

That map looks a lot like the 164 Bus route.
That map looks a lot like the 164 Bus route. 1localman
  • Score: -2

2:50pm Wed 23 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

1localman wrote:
That map looks a lot like the 164 Bus route.
So....? It would do, wouldn't it? No doubt in 1850 the map of the proposed railway to Victoria looked a lot like the horse and carriage route!
[quote][p][bold]1localman[/bold] wrote: That map looks a lot like the 164 Bus route.[/p][/quote]So....? It would do, wouldn't it? No doubt in 1850 the map of the proposed railway to Victoria looked a lot like the horse and carriage route! ResidentTony
  • Score: 10

1:30pm Thu 24 Jul 14

Niki R says...

ResidentTony wrote:
Niki R wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,
Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.
What good did that negative and misleading comment do? Croydon and Kingston are far bigger than Sutton, so obviously have more shops. But Sutton is a good choice for people who appreciate its less hurried atmosphere with plenty of coffee shops to take a breather in. Politicians like you should stop talking Sutton down. You seem to want Sutton to have a bad image, so you can win your seat next time round. Everything you write seems politically motivated - sometimes I agree with you despite this, but this time I definitely do not.

Regarding your expressed concern about the ability of shops to survive improvement works, the chains might take a short term hit, but would be prepared to for the long term benefits. As for the independents, they're in Sutton precisely because they can compete successfully with the chains. To take one example: Cafe Kiko and Tazza (both independent) are always busy despite the presence of Caffe Nero x 2, Costa, Starbucks and Patisserie Valerie. So independents will be fine if they are competitive.
Read my posts properly and without the argumentative filter you love to view things through. Nothing to do with politics, everything to do with not wanting businesses to suffer as I saw in Croydon. I'm not a politician. I am not paid to do such a job. I don't know if I will stand for the Council again- it appears residents are scared of change and Councillors are ineffective compared to ordinary community campaigners, so that's just what I may remain. I just want Sutton to be better than it is because I live here. How much clearer can I be?
[quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Niki R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,[/p][/quote]Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.[/p][/quote]What good did that negative and misleading comment do? Croydon and Kingston are far bigger than Sutton, so obviously have more shops. But Sutton is a good choice for people who appreciate its less hurried atmosphere with plenty of coffee shops to take a breather in. Politicians like you should stop talking Sutton down. You seem to want Sutton to have a bad image, so you can win your seat next time round. Everything you write seems politically motivated - sometimes I agree with you despite this, but this time I definitely do not. Regarding your expressed concern about the ability of shops to survive improvement works, the chains might take a short term hit, but would be prepared to for the long term benefits. As for the independents, they're in Sutton precisely because they can compete successfully with the chains. To take one example: Cafe Kiko and Tazza (both independent) are always busy despite the presence of Caffe Nero x 2, Costa, Starbucks and Patisserie Valerie. So independents will be fine if they are competitive.[/p][/quote]Read my posts properly and without the argumentative filter you love to view things through. Nothing to do with politics, everything to do with not wanting businesses to suffer as I saw in Croydon. I'm not a politician. I am not paid to do such a job. I don't know if I will stand for the Council again- it appears residents are scared of change and Councillors are ineffective compared to ordinary community campaigners, so that's just what I may remain. I just want Sutton to be better than it is because I live here. How much clearer can I be? Niki R
  • Score: -2

1:34pm Thu 24 Jul 14

Niki R says...

ResidentTony wrote:
LiberalsOut wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
Niki R wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,
Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.
What good did that negative and misleading comment do? Croydon and Kingston are far bigger than Sutton, so obviously have more shops. But Sutton is a good choice for people who appreciate its less hurried atmosphere with plenty of coffee shops to take a breather in. Politicians like you should stop talking Sutton down. You seem to want Sutton to have a bad image, so you can win your seat next time round. Everything you write seems politically motivated - sometimes I agree with you despite this, but this time I definitely do not.

Regarding your expressed concern about the ability of shops to survive improvement works, the chains might take a short term hit, but would be prepared to for the long term benefits. As for the independents, they're in Sutton precisely because they can compete successfully with the chains. To take one example: Cafe Kiko and Tazza (both independent) are always busy despite the presence of Caffe Nero x 2, Costa, Starbucks and Patisserie Valerie. So independents will be fine if they are competitive.
Only the Labour Party are polically motivated then?
I think you need to open your eyes matey - Lib Dems are the worst of them all
I am not saying that only the Labour party are politically motivated. The Tories made a concerted effort to rubbish Sutton in the Spring, but failed. I am sure the Liberal Democrats would do the same if they were in opposition here. So I wish opposition politicians would stop trying to distort genuine debate on these comment boards. To call the High St a dead zone is a lie and plain mischievous. A politician who claims to be standing up for independent high street shops is actually doing them a disservice by using such derogatory comments about the high street in which they are located. If she carries on like that, the shops in question will be closed down before the Tramlink construction phase even starts!
My perception is that it is a dead zone. I find it empty, soulless and a mess. That's my opinion as a resident and shopper, not because I vote the way I do. It's those very independents I fear for, having seen so many go out of business when the tramline was built through Croydon. Experience tells me that we need fears allayed and proper management before I will welcome the tram to Sutton.
[quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LiberalsOut[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Niki R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,[/p][/quote]Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.[/p][/quote]What good did that negative and misleading comment do? Croydon and Kingston are far bigger than Sutton, so obviously have more shops. But Sutton is a good choice for people who appreciate its less hurried atmosphere with plenty of coffee shops to take a breather in. Politicians like you should stop talking Sutton down. You seem to want Sutton to have a bad image, so you can win your seat next time round. Everything you write seems politically motivated - sometimes I agree with you despite this, but this time I definitely do not. Regarding your expressed concern about the ability of shops to survive improvement works, the chains might take a short term hit, but would be prepared to for the long term benefits. As for the independents, they're in Sutton precisely because they can compete successfully with the chains. To take one example: Cafe Kiko and Tazza (both independent) are always busy despite the presence of Caffe Nero x 2, Costa, Starbucks and Patisserie Valerie. So independents will be fine if they are competitive.[/p][/quote]Only the Labour Party are polically motivated then? I think you need to open your eyes matey - Lib Dems are the worst of them all[/p][/quote]I am not saying that only the Labour party are politically motivated. The Tories made a concerted effort to rubbish Sutton in the Spring, but failed. I am sure the Liberal Democrats would do the same if they were in opposition here. So I wish opposition politicians would stop trying to distort genuine debate on these comment boards. To call the High St a dead zone is a lie and plain mischievous. A politician who claims to be standing up for independent high street shops is actually doing them a disservice by using such derogatory comments about the high street in which they are located. If she carries on like that, the shops in question will be closed down before the Tramlink construction phase even starts![/p][/quote]My perception is that it is a dead zone. I find it empty, soulless and a mess. That's my opinion as a resident and shopper, not because I vote the way I do. It's those very independents I fear for, having seen so many go out of business when the tramline was built through Croydon. Experience tells me that we need fears allayed and proper management before I will welcome the tram to Sutton. Niki R
  • Score: -4

4:20pm Thu 24 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

Niki R wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
LiberalsOut wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
Niki R wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,
Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.
What good did that negative and misleading comment do? Croydon and Kingston are far bigger than Sutton, so obviously have more shops. But Sutton is a good choice for people who appreciate its less hurried atmosphere with plenty of coffee shops to take a breather in. Politicians like you should stop talking Sutton down. You seem to want Sutton to have a bad image, so you can win your seat next time round. Everything you write seems politically motivated - sometimes I agree with you despite this, but this time I definitely do not.

Regarding your expressed concern about the ability of shops to survive improvement works, the chains might take a short term hit, but would be prepared to for the long term benefits. As for the independents, they're in Sutton precisely because they can compete successfully with the chains. To take one example: Cafe Kiko and Tazza (both independent) are always busy despite the presence of Caffe Nero x 2, Costa, Starbucks and Patisserie Valerie. So independents will be fine if they are competitive.
Only the Labour Party are polically motivated then?
I think you need to open your eyes matey - Lib Dems are the worst of them all
I am not saying that only the Labour party are politically motivated. The Tories made a concerted effort to rubbish Sutton in the Spring, but failed. I am sure the Liberal Democrats would do the same if they were in opposition here. So I wish opposition politicians would stop trying to distort genuine debate on these comment boards. To call the High St a dead zone is a lie and plain mischievous. A politician who claims to be standing up for independent high street shops is actually doing them a disservice by using such derogatory comments about the high street in which they are located. If she carries on like that, the shops in question will be closed down before the Tramlink construction phase even starts!
My perception is that it is a dead zone. I find it empty, soulless and a mess. That's my opinion as a resident and shopper, not because I vote the way I do. It's those very independents I fear for, having seen so many go out of business when the tramline was built through Croydon. Experience tells me that we need fears allayed and proper management before I will welcome the tram to Sutton.
Well, it's the liveliest "dead zone" I've ever seen...
[quote][p][bold]Niki R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LiberalsOut[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Niki R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,[/p][/quote]Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.[/p][/quote]What good did that negative and misleading comment do? Croydon and Kingston are far bigger than Sutton, so obviously have more shops. But Sutton is a good choice for people who appreciate its less hurried atmosphere with plenty of coffee shops to take a breather in. Politicians like you should stop talking Sutton down. You seem to want Sutton to have a bad image, so you can win your seat next time round. Everything you write seems politically motivated - sometimes I agree with you despite this, but this time I definitely do not. Regarding your expressed concern about the ability of shops to survive improvement works, the chains might take a short term hit, but would be prepared to for the long term benefits. As for the independents, they're in Sutton precisely because they can compete successfully with the chains. To take one example: Cafe Kiko and Tazza (both independent) are always busy despite the presence of Caffe Nero x 2, Costa, Starbucks and Patisserie Valerie. So independents will be fine if they are competitive.[/p][/quote]Only the Labour Party are polically motivated then? I think you need to open your eyes matey - Lib Dems are the worst of them all[/p][/quote]I am not saying that only the Labour party are politically motivated. The Tories made a concerted effort to rubbish Sutton in the Spring, but failed. I am sure the Liberal Democrats would do the same if they were in opposition here. So I wish opposition politicians would stop trying to distort genuine debate on these comment boards. To call the High St a dead zone is a lie and plain mischievous. A politician who claims to be standing up for independent high street shops is actually doing them a disservice by using such derogatory comments about the high street in which they are located. If she carries on like that, the shops in question will be closed down before the Tramlink construction phase even starts![/p][/quote]My perception is that it is a dead zone. I find it empty, soulless and a mess. That's my opinion as a resident and shopper, not because I vote the way I do. It's those very independents I fear for, having seen so many go out of business when the tramline was built through Croydon. Experience tells me that we need fears allayed and proper management before I will welcome the tram to Sutton.[/p][/quote]Well, it's the liveliest "dead zone" I've ever seen... ResidentTony
  • Score: 6

4:23pm Thu 24 Jul 14

NeilHD says...

ResidentTony wrote:
1localman wrote:
That map looks a lot like the 164 Bus route.
So....? It would do, wouldn't it? No doubt in 1850 the map of the proposed railway to Victoria looked a lot like the horse and carriage route!
What a daft thing to say. The difference is that the horse and carriage route would have taken hours or days, whereas the bus we already have will be just as quick as the tram.

There are plenty of ways to get from Sutton to Wimbledon and Croydon already. A tram simply is not necessary. The congestion around Rosehill Roundabout will be terrible.

Even if you accept that more transport is necessary, the point somebody else made about Sutton being dead is made is even more valid: You aren't just making it easy to get people into Sutton. You are making it easier for them to get out of it into better shopping areas!
[quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]1localman[/bold] wrote: That map looks a lot like the 164 Bus route.[/p][/quote]So....? It would do, wouldn't it? No doubt in 1850 the map of the proposed railway to Victoria looked a lot like the horse and carriage route![/p][/quote]What a daft thing to say. The difference is that the horse and carriage route would have taken hours or days, whereas the bus we already have will be just as quick as the tram. There are plenty of ways to get from Sutton to Wimbledon and Croydon already. A tram simply is not necessary. The congestion around Rosehill Roundabout will be terrible. Even if you accept that more transport is necessary, the point somebody else made about Sutton being dead is made is even more valid: You aren't just making it easy to get people into Sutton. You are making it easier for them to get out of it into better shopping areas! NeilHD
  • Score: 9

4:50pm Thu 24 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

Niki R wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
Niki R wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,
Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.
What good did that negative and misleading comment do? Croydon and Kingston are far bigger than Sutton, so obviously have more shops. But Sutton is a good choice for people who appreciate its less hurried atmosphere with plenty of coffee shops to take a breather in. Politicians like you should stop talking Sutton down. You seem to want Sutton to have a bad image, so you can win your seat next time round. Everything you write seems politically motivated - sometimes I agree with you despite this, but this time I definitely do not.

Regarding your expressed concern about the ability of shops to survive improvement works, the chains might take a short term hit, but would be prepared to for the long term benefits. As for the independents, they're in Sutton precisely because they can compete successfully with the chains. To take one example: Cafe Kiko and Tazza (both independent) are always busy despite the presence of Caffe Nero x 2, Costa, Starbucks and Patisserie Valerie. So independents will be fine if they are competitive.
Read my posts properly and without the argumentative filter you love to view things through. Nothing to do with politics, everything to do with not wanting businesses to suffer as I saw in Croydon. I'm not a politician. I am not paid to do such a job. I don't know if I will stand for the Council again- it appears residents are scared of change and Councillors are ineffective compared to ordinary community campaigners, so that's just what I may remain. I just want Sutton to be better than it is because I live here. How much clearer can I be?
It's fine to stand up for independent shops, but unhelpful to dismiss the high street in such stark and, in my view, plain inaccurate terms. I am glad you want Sutton to be better. Clearly we differ on the means of achieving that goal. I think Sutton town centre will become an even more attractive place when the Old Gas Works and Sutton Point are completed.
[quote][p][bold]Niki R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Niki R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: Niki R - ailing is not the first word I'd use about the High St - it's got some good shops including a Waterstones. It has survived temporary disruption during the initial eighties pedestrianisation and the makeover of a couple of years ago. Trams could give it a new lease of life. Also there would be less disruption in St Nicholas Way,[/p][/quote]Every time I go in to Sutton it's like the dead zone. The quality and choice of shops is not on a par with neighbouring places such as Croydon or Kingston. There are few independent traders and even the chain stores carry limited stock compared to other locations. I have concerns that the works that a tram extension would entail would kill off too many businesses, as happened in Croydon many moons ago.[/p][/quote]What good did that negative and misleading comment do? Croydon and Kingston are far bigger than Sutton, so obviously have more shops. But Sutton is a good choice for people who appreciate its less hurried atmosphere with plenty of coffee shops to take a breather in. Politicians like you should stop talking Sutton down. You seem to want Sutton to have a bad image, so you can win your seat next time round. Everything you write seems politically motivated - sometimes I agree with you despite this, but this time I definitely do not. Regarding your expressed concern about the ability of shops to survive improvement works, the chains might take a short term hit, but would be prepared to for the long term benefits. As for the independents, they're in Sutton precisely because they can compete successfully with the chains. To take one example: Cafe Kiko and Tazza (both independent) are always busy despite the presence of Caffe Nero x 2, Costa, Starbucks and Patisserie Valerie. So independents will be fine if they are competitive.[/p][/quote]Read my posts properly and without the argumentative filter you love to view things through. Nothing to do with politics, everything to do with not wanting businesses to suffer as I saw in Croydon. I'm not a politician. I am not paid to do such a job. I don't know if I will stand for the Council again- it appears residents are scared of change and Councillors are ineffective compared to ordinary community campaigners, so that's just what I may remain. I just want Sutton to be better than it is because I live here. How much clearer can I be?[/p][/quote]It's fine to stand up for independent shops, but unhelpful to dismiss the high street in such stark and, in my view, plain inaccurate terms. I am glad you want Sutton to be better. Clearly we differ on the means of achieving that goal. I think Sutton town centre will become an even more attractive place when the Old Gas Works and Sutton Point are completed. ResidentTony
  • Score: 5

5:13pm Thu 24 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

NeilHD wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
1localman wrote:
That map looks a lot like the 164 Bus route.
So....? It would do, wouldn't it? No doubt in 1850 the map of the proposed railway to Victoria looked a lot like the horse and carriage route!
What a daft thing to say. The difference is that the horse and carriage route would have taken hours or days, whereas the bus we already have will be just as quick as the tram.

There are plenty of ways to get from Sutton to Wimbledon and Croydon already. A tram simply is not necessary. The congestion around Rosehill Roundabout will be terrible.

Even if you accept that more transport is necessary, the point somebody else made about Sutton being dead is made is even more valid: You aren't just making it easy to get people into Sutton. You are making it easier for them to get out of it into better shopping areas!
My point was not that the trams would five times as fast as the buses. We don't want the trams because without them there'd be no transport at all. We want them because they will be an alternative, and far better form of transport. You have (inadvertently?) conceded that yourself by saying people will find it easier to travel out of Sutton. I will find it a pleasant way of getting to say Morden Hall Park on a sunny weekend; but for shopping I will stay in Sutton and use the High Street, which is in my humble opinion not at all dead. I'd say it was lively, vibrant even, with a good range of shops including a large and popular Waterstones bookshop.
[quote][p][bold]NeilHD[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]1localman[/bold] wrote: That map looks a lot like the 164 Bus route.[/p][/quote]So....? It would do, wouldn't it? No doubt in 1850 the map of the proposed railway to Victoria looked a lot like the horse and carriage route![/p][/quote]What a daft thing to say. The difference is that the horse and carriage route would have taken hours or days, whereas the bus we already have will be just as quick as the tram. There are plenty of ways to get from Sutton to Wimbledon and Croydon already. A tram simply is not necessary. The congestion around Rosehill Roundabout will be terrible. Even if you accept that more transport is necessary, the point somebody else made about Sutton being dead is made is even more valid: You aren't just making it easy to get people into Sutton. You are making it easier for them to get out of it into better shopping areas![/p][/quote]My point was not that the trams would five times as fast as the buses. We don't want the trams because without them there'd be no transport at all. We want them because they will be an alternative, and far better form of transport. You have (inadvertently?) conceded that yourself by saying people will find it easier to travel out of Sutton. I will find it a pleasant way of getting to say Morden Hall Park on a sunny weekend; but for shopping I will stay in Sutton and use the High Street, which is in my humble opinion not at all dead. I'd say it was lively, vibrant even, with a good range of shops including a large and popular Waterstones bookshop. ResidentTony
  • Score: 3

5:42pm Thu 24 Jul 14

JustinC says...

A route which includes the high street would be a big mistake. Sutton should be improving the high street by making it greener and more attractive. It wouldn't be safe to pedestrians and would create an unpleasant environment.
Personally I support the trams but the devil will be in the detail of the implementation. There is no point in spending north of 100m if the time it takes to travel the route is comparable to bus. Tram route should avoid major junctions possibly be elevated in places to make this happen.
Let's be clear though, this is not an alternative route into Central London for masses of Sutton commuters.

It will create extra footfall for the high street, provided it's implemented well and that's the reason why I support it.
A route which includes the high street would be a big mistake. Sutton should be improving the high street by making it greener and more attractive. It wouldn't be safe to pedestrians and would create an unpleasant environment. Personally I support the trams but the devil will be in the detail of the implementation. There is no point in spending north of 100m if the time it takes to travel the route is comparable to bus. Tram route should avoid major junctions possibly be elevated in places to make this happen. Let's be clear though, this is not an alternative route into Central London for masses of Sutton commuters. It will create extra footfall for the high street, provided it's implemented well and that's the reason why I support it. JustinC
  • Score: -6

6:23pm Thu 24 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

JustinC wrote:
A route which includes the high street would be a big mistake. Sutton should be improving the high street by making it greener and more attractive. It wouldn't be safe to pedestrians and would create an unpleasant environment.
Personally I support the trams but the devil will be in the detail of the implementation. There is no point in spending north of 100m if the time it takes to travel the route is comparable to bus. Tram route should avoid major junctions possibly be elevated in places to make this happen.
Let's be clear though, this is not an alternative route into Central London for masses of Sutton commuters.

It will create extra footfall for the high street, provided it's implemented well and that's the reason why I support it.
I argued in favour of running the tram line down the High Street, because, if done really well, it would serve to highlight its attractions to passing trade, something it has had to live without since the mid-eighties. However, I agree with the need to continuously improve the appearance of the street. The devil will indeed be in the detail, and if those in charge get everything right, the High Street could still be a pleasant environment with trams running down it. After all, many Continental towns have trams running all over the place, and still manage to be attractive with plenty of pavement cafes, etc. At the end of the day, the high street stores and shops ought to have the final say; after all, they will be among the businesses paying part of the costs of bringing the trams here. If the view is that using the one way system is on balance better, I'd be happy enough with that too.
[quote][p][bold]JustinC[/bold] wrote: A route which includes the high street would be a big mistake. Sutton should be improving the high street by making it greener and more attractive. It wouldn't be safe to pedestrians and would create an unpleasant environment. Personally I support the trams but the devil will be in the detail of the implementation. There is no point in spending north of 100m if the time it takes to travel the route is comparable to bus. Tram route should avoid major junctions possibly be elevated in places to make this happen. Let's be clear though, this is not an alternative route into Central London for masses of Sutton commuters. It will create extra footfall for the high street, provided it's implemented well and that's the reason why I support it.[/p][/quote]I argued in favour of running the tram line down the High Street, because, if done really well, it would serve to highlight its attractions to passing trade, something it has had to live without since the mid-eighties. However, I agree with the need to continuously improve the appearance of the street. The devil will indeed be in the detail, and if those in charge get everything right, the High Street could still be a pleasant environment with trams running down it. After all, many Continental towns have trams running all over the place, and still manage to be attractive with plenty of pavement cafes, etc. At the end of the day, the high street stores and shops ought to have the final say; after all, they will be among the businesses paying part of the costs of bringing the trams here. If the view is that using the one way system is on balance better, I'd be happy enough with that too. ResidentTony
  • Score: 4

3:18pm Fri 25 Jul 14

mafioza says...

If it gets me to Wimbledon quickly from Sutton then I can get to a decent Supermarket like Waitrose.
If it gets me to Wimbledon quickly from Sutton then I can get to a decent Supermarket like Waitrose. mafioza
  • Score: -4

5:46pm Fri 25 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

mafioza wrote:
If it gets me to Wimbledon quickly from Sutton then I can get to a decent Supermarket like Waitrose.
There's one within walking distance almost - in Cheam village. So that's the one thing you don't need a tram for. But you were just being sarcastic of course!! Silly me!
[quote][p][bold]mafioza[/bold] wrote: If it gets me to Wimbledon quickly from Sutton then I can get to a decent Supermarket like Waitrose.[/p][/quote]There's one within walking distance almost - in Cheam village. So that's the one thing you don't need a tram for. But you were just being sarcastic of course!! Silly me! ResidentTony
  • Score: 6

6:10pm Fri 25 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

ResidentTony wrote:
mafioza wrote:
If it gets me to Wimbledon quickly from Sutton then I can get to a decent Supermarket like Waitrose.
There's one within walking distance almost - in Cheam village. So that's the one thing you don't need a tram for. But you were just being sarcastic of course!! Silly me!
There will be benefits to Wimbledon residents too - those wanting a Good Food Guide and Michelin listed French restaurant (something that Wimbledon currently sadly lacks) will be able to hop on a tram to Sutton High Street and dine at Brasserie Vacherin.
[quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mafioza[/bold] wrote: If it gets me to Wimbledon quickly from Sutton then I can get to a decent Supermarket like Waitrose.[/p][/quote]There's one within walking distance almost - in Cheam village. So that's the one thing you don't need a tram for. But you were just being sarcastic of course!! Silly me![/p][/quote]There will be benefits to Wimbledon residents too - those wanting a Good Food Guide and Michelin listed French restaurant (something that Wimbledon currently sadly lacks) will be able to hop on a tram to Sutton High Street and dine at Brasserie Vacherin. ResidentTony
  • Score: 5

11:18am Sat 26 Jul 14

Successful Sutton says...

Extending the tram to sutton will provide a huge economic boost for Sutton town centre; providing easier connectivity into London, better orbital travel across South London; increased employment opportunities and secure greater levels of inward investment.

Sutton is already scheduled to benefit from £400m of private sector investment over the next five years, which will increase the number of people who visit sutton each week. Sutton is currently visited by 500,000 each week - demonstrating our town centre is not ailing!

Like a lot of town centres Sutton has had a difficult few years. However, Sutton's existing businesses are committed to supporting the regeneration of the town centre and contribute £350,000 each year through Successful Sutton on marketing, events, and improvement works.

The planned extension of the Tram will benefit Sutton and Wimbledon and is supported by Sutton's business community through both Successful Sutton and Sutton Chamber.
Extending the tram to sutton will provide a huge economic boost for Sutton town centre; providing easier connectivity into London, better orbital travel across South London; increased employment opportunities and secure greater levels of inward investment. Sutton is already scheduled to benefit from £400m of private sector investment over the next five years, which will increase the number of people who visit sutton each week. Sutton is currently visited by 500,000 each week - demonstrating our town centre is not ailing! Like a lot of town centres Sutton has had a difficult few years. However, Sutton's existing businesses are committed to supporting the regeneration of the town centre and contribute £350,000 each year through Successful Sutton on marketing, events, and improvement works. The planned extension of the Tram will benefit Sutton and Wimbledon and is supported by Sutton's business community through both Successful Sutton and Sutton Chamber. Successful Sutton
  • Score: -11

9:12am Mon 28 Jul 14

Niki R says...

How will pedestrian traffic and trams be segregated? One thing Sutton does have going for it is fact that the majority is traffic-free; I ask because I have seen several near misses and someone hit by a tram at the junction of North End and George Street/Crown Hill in Croydon where the lines cut straight across the pedestrian area.
How will pedestrian traffic and trams be segregated? One thing Sutton does have going for it is fact that the majority is traffic-free; I ask because I have seen several near misses and someone hit by a tram at the junction of North End and George Street/Crown Hill in Croydon where the lines cut straight across the pedestrian area. Niki R
  • Score: 2

10:20am Mon 28 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

Niki R wrote:
How will pedestrian traffic and trams be segregated? One thing Sutton does have going for it is fact that the majority is traffic-free; I ask because I have seen several near misses and someone hit by a tram at the junction of North End and George Street/Crown Hill in Croydon where the lines cut straight across the pedestrian area.
fair point: we need to learn lessons from Croydon, as Krissi pointed out last week, including these obviously important safety issues. But the main lesson from Croydon is that the tram has, overall, been a great success and we'd be daft not not to try to emulate that success, given that we have the chance to.
[quote][p][bold]Niki R[/bold] wrote: How will pedestrian traffic and trams be segregated? One thing Sutton does have going for it is fact that the majority is traffic-free; I ask because I have seen several near misses and someone hit by a tram at the junction of North End and George Street/Crown Hill in Croydon where the lines cut straight across the pedestrian area.[/p][/quote]fair point: we need to learn lessons from Croydon, as Krissi pointed out last week, including these obviously important safety issues. But the main lesson from Croydon is that the tram has, overall, been a great success and we'd be daft not not to try to emulate that success, given that we have the chance to. ResidentTony
  • Score: -4

1:40pm Mon 28 Jul 14

NeilHD says...

ResidentTony wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
mafioza wrote:
If it gets me to Wimbledon quickly from Sutton then I can get to a decent Supermarket like Waitrose.
There's one within walking distance almost - in Cheam village. So that's the one thing you don't need a tram for. But you were just being sarcastic of course!! Silly me!
There will be benefits to Wimbledon residents too - those wanting a Good Food Guide and Michelin listed French restaurant (something that Wimbledon currently sadly lacks) will be able to hop on a tram to Sutton High Street and dine at Brasserie Vacherin.
Or they could just get on the direct train which takes all of 15 minutes...
[quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mafioza[/bold] wrote: If it gets me to Wimbledon quickly from Sutton then I can get to a decent Supermarket like Waitrose.[/p][/quote]There's one within walking distance almost - in Cheam village. So that's the one thing you don't need a tram for. But you were just being sarcastic of course!! Silly me![/p][/quote]There will be benefits to Wimbledon residents too - those wanting a Good Food Guide and Michelin listed French restaurant (something that Wimbledon currently sadly lacks) will be able to hop on a tram to Sutton High Street and dine at Brasserie Vacherin.[/p][/quote]Or they could just get on the direct train which takes all of 15 minutes... NeilHD
  • Score: 7

2:16pm Mon 28 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

NeilHD wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
mafioza wrote:
If it gets me to Wimbledon quickly from Sutton then I can get to a decent Supermarket like Waitrose.
There's one within walking distance almost - in Cheam village. So that's the one thing you don't need a tram for. But you were just being sarcastic of course!! Silly me!
There will be benefits to Wimbledon residents too - those wanting a Good Food Guide and Michelin listed French restaurant (something that Wimbledon currently sadly lacks) will be able to hop on a tram to Sutton High Street and dine at Brasserie Vacherin.
Or they could just get on the direct train which takes all of 15 minutes...
they could, but they would have to wait up to 30 minutes unless they time leaving their house to coincide with the train departure time. the trams would be a lot more frequent (and rather more accessible). But don't get me wrong: overall transport links for Sutton are already good, especially for fast direct trains to London Victoria. But the tram would serve a different purpose, being primarily a local facility. Croydon was one the best connected places before the tram. But even in Croydon there were gaps, and the tram has plugged them. I doubt if many Croydon people could imagine going back to pre-tram days....
[quote][p][bold]NeilHD[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mafioza[/bold] wrote: If it gets me to Wimbledon quickly from Sutton then I can get to a decent Supermarket like Waitrose.[/p][/quote]There's one within walking distance almost - in Cheam village. So that's the one thing you don't need a tram for. But you were just being sarcastic of course!! Silly me![/p][/quote]There will be benefits to Wimbledon residents too - those wanting a Good Food Guide and Michelin listed French restaurant (something that Wimbledon currently sadly lacks) will be able to hop on a tram to Sutton High Street and dine at Brasserie Vacherin.[/p][/quote]Or they could just get on the direct train which takes all of 15 minutes...[/p][/quote]they could, but they would have to wait up to 30 minutes unless they time leaving their house to coincide with the train departure time. the trams would be a lot more frequent (and rather more accessible). But don't get me wrong: overall transport links for Sutton are already good, especially for fast direct trains to London Victoria. But the tram would serve a different purpose, being primarily a local facility. Croydon was one the best connected places before the tram. But even in Croydon there were gaps, and the tram has plugged them. I doubt if many Croydon people could imagine going back to pre-tram days.... ResidentTony
  • Score: -2

6:29pm Thu 31 Jul 14

Launchballer says...

Now I came here from a pamphlet from my door, so I know exactly what the options are. 1: Wimbledon via Morden Road; South Wimbledon via Morden Road; South Wimbledon via Abbey Recreation Ground. 2: Serve St. Helier Hospital; Don't serve St. Helier Hospital. 3: Follow the one-way system; Use the high street. I say Wimbledon via Morden Road via the one-way system and avoiding St. Helier Hospital, because St. Helier is right out of the way and all it would do is delay journeys; it is well within walking distance. As for Wimbledon, we already would already have access to the Northern line at Morden - why would we need a second at South Wimbledon?
Now I came here from a pamphlet from my door, so I know exactly what the options are. 1: Wimbledon via Morden Road; South Wimbledon via Morden Road; South Wimbledon via Abbey Recreation Ground. 2: Serve St. Helier Hospital; Don't serve St. Helier Hospital. 3: Follow the one-way system; Use the high street. I say Wimbledon via Morden Road via the one-way system and avoiding St. Helier Hospital, because St. Helier is right out of the way and all it would do is delay journeys; it is well within walking distance. As for Wimbledon, we already would already have access to the Northern line at Morden - why would we need a second at South Wimbledon? Launchballer
  • Score: 2

2:01pm Fri 8 Aug 14

clouis2000 says...

LiberalsOut wrote:
Lh34572 wrote:
I think it is an absolute waste of money! I am a resident of st helier avenue and the thought of a tram running up here is crazy. The transport links from morden to Sutton are more then adequate, why not regenerate morden as promised for years? Rather then bidding for a tram extension that is not necessary? The disruption for us residents already living on a main road, with noisy traffic and vibrations would be ridiculous, tram stops up the length of st Helier avenue with youths hanging out at each given stop is unthinkable. Hopefully this doesn't ever catch on and we can carry on as we do now.
You are one of the few sensible voices
Waste of money - plenty of transport links here already
As usual not thought through
I Totally agree. It is a total waste of tax payers money.
What would do when I get down at South Wimbledon? There aren't any shops there and why would someone lives South Wimbledon wants to come to Sutton where he or she can do better shopping in Wimbledon/Croydon or Kingston.
[quote][p][bold]LiberalsOut[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lh34572[/bold] wrote: I think it is an absolute waste of money! I am a resident of st helier avenue and the thought of a tram running up here is crazy. The transport links from morden to Sutton are more then adequate, why not regenerate morden as promised for years? Rather then bidding for a tram extension that is not necessary? The disruption for us residents already living on a main road, with noisy traffic and vibrations would be ridiculous, tram stops up the length of st Helier avenue with youths hanging out at each given stop is unthinkable. Hopefully this doesn't ever catch on and we can carry on as we do now.[/p][/quote]You are one of the few sensible voices Waste of money - plenty of transport links here already As usual not thought through[/p][/quote]I Totally agree. It is a total waste of tax payers money. What would do when I get down at South Wimbledon? There aren't any shops there and why would someone lives South Wimbledon wants to come to Sutton where he or she can do better shopping in Wimbledon/Croydon or Kingston. clouis2000
  • Score: 2

2:21pm Fri 8 Aug 14

clouis2000 says...

Like many said, That map looks a lot like the 164 Bus route. It is a total waste of money The £500,000 should be spent on more Buses. It doesn't provide any extra transport for the neighbouring town such as Cheam, Carshalton and Wallington. Even the Tramlink doesn't go to St.Helier Hospital. Besides, what would I do once I get to South Wimbledon? It is a dead end. Please think twice.
Like many said, That map looks a lot like the 164 Bus route. It is a total waste of money The £500,000 should be spent on more Buses. It doesn't provide any extra transport for the neighbouring town such as Cheam, Carshalton and Wallington. Even the Tramlink doesn't go to St.Helier Hospital. Besides, what would I do once I get to South Wimbledon? It is a dead end. Please think twice. clouis2000
  • Score: 2

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