TIMELAPSE VIDEO: New Hackbridge junction brings sense of community and safety, planners say

The new junction in Hackbridge (pic: Steven Silverwood)

The new junction in Hackbridge (pic: Steven Silverwood)

First published in News
Last updated
Sutton Guardian: Photograph of the Author by , Chief Reporter

Planners say a new-look road layout will make a suburb safer and give it a better sense of community.

The Heart of Hackbridge Project altered the road layout at the junction of London Road and Hackbridge Road in a number of ways including the addition of a new 'roundle' junction, widened pavements, a narrowed road, six new courtesy crossings and cosmetic improvements like improved shop signs, LED lighting and more.

A timelapse of the project put together by filmmaker Steven Silverwood

Council planners say the project will provide multiple services, as well as slowing traffic down to make the area safer for both pedestrians and drivers, it has widened the pavements to provide space for events like the new farmers' market and has given Hackbridge a district centre.

The project has been based around the junction of London Road and Hackbridge Road. The old system with zebra crossings has been replaced with a 'roundle', which is like a mini-roundabout but without lines to indicate the junction. The purpose of the roundle is to make drivers slow to think about what they need to do.

This, combined with a narrower road, planners hope will cause drivers to behave more safely as they pass through.

The old zebra crossings have been replaced with six courtesy crossings that encourage pedestrians to make eye contact with drivers who, in turn, will slow down and let them across.

Sally Blomfield, area renewal programme manager for Sutton Council, said: "The residents of Hackbridge felt there was no central focus to the area, it was just somewhere people drove through.

"This has been a resident-led scheme in terms of its design. There have been three consultations at different stages so people in the area really have been given the chance to shape it.

Sutton Guardian:

A mother and son use one of the new crossings

"It's been designed with the Department for Transport using a model they've used elsewhere. Clutter has been removed, the road has been raised to pavement level and the aim is to encourage pedestrians to feel ownership of the space."

Traffic speeds through the junction have been severely reduced although some users have said they find the new layout confusing as there are no signs or road markings to tell people who has right of way.

The project also included paying for shops to get new fronts, improvements to buildings and new 'rain gardens' - areas of planting that feature reeds that will survive on dirty water that runs off the road and flowers that will survive on the cleaner water that gets past the reeds.

Funding for the project came from the Greater London Authority, Sutton Council and several other sources.

Comments (89)

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3:37pm Tue 22 Jul 14

woowoowend says...

Are you kidding me this road is an accident waiting to happen, no one stops at that stupid round thing in the middle...It is not slowing drivers down. Twice now I have nearly had an accident as people do not stop, not only that people are walking out to cross the road, no matter what is coming, no road markings, sort it out Sutton Council and soon!
Are you kidding me this road is an accident waiting to happen, no one stops at that stupid round thing in the middle...It is not slowing drivers down. Twice now I have nearly had an accident as people do not stop, not only that people are walking out to cross the road, no matter what is coming, no road markings, sort it out Sutton Council and soon! woowoowend
  • Score: 56

3:39pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Niki R says...

I'd like to see a timelapse of how many near misses there are on a daily basis, how many pedestrians are almost mown down or wait ages to cross, or how many confused drivers almost end up rear-ended by an impatient one behind.
I'd like to see a timelapse of how many near misses there are on a daily basis, how many pedestrians are almost mown down or wait ages to cross, or how many confused drivers almost end up rear-ended by an impatient one behind. Niki R
  • Score: 45

3:53pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Sutton456 says...

This new junction is a nightmare - cars are parked all over the place, they don't know that they should be stopping. I use this junction every day and I feel less safe now than in the 25 years I've lived in the area. As for consulting with the residents that is complete rubbish, maybe those that live a safe distance away but for those on the main thoroughfare voiced their opinions and were totally ignored. For a project that was supposed to only take 5 months, its now been dragging on for 8 with no sign of it ever finishing.
This new junction is a nightmare - cars are parked all over the place, they don't know that they should be stopping. I use this junction every day and I feel less safe now than in the 25 years I've lived in the area. As for consulting with the residents that is complete rubbish, maybe those that live a safe distance away but for those on the main thoroughfare voiced their opinions and were totally ignored. For a project that was supposed to only take 5 months, its now been dragging on for 8 with no sign of it ever finishing. Sutton456
  • Score: 39

4:04pm Tue 22 Jul 14

stephie86 says...

I am absolutely blown away that some clever spark at the planning office has authorised this new 'Roundle' system to be installed onto such a busy junction. I live in Hackbridge myself and I have to pass Hackbridge corner at least twice a day. The lack of road markings may slow some people down however, the majority of drivers just drive at it with the attitude that everyone has 'right of way'. In the weeks that this Roundle has been in place I have had several near misses as well as having witnessed several more. Something must be done about this and fast otherwise somebody is going to get seriously hurt!
I am absolutely blown away that some clever spark at the planning office has authorised this new 'Roundle' system to be installed onto such a busy junction. I live in Hackbridge myself and I have to pass Hackbridge corner at least twice a day. The lack of road markings may slow some people down however, the majority of drivers just drive at it with the attitude that everyone has 'right of way'. In the weeks that this Roundle has been in place I have had several near misses as well as having witnessed several more. Something must be done about this and fast otherwise somebody is going to get seriously hurt! stephie86
  • Score: 37

4:04pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Jaws75 says...

Wow...... Just, wow!...... This could just be the daftest thing I've ever heard of. It would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that they are playing with people's lives.

This is a catastrophic accident just waiting to happen. Is this type of junction even in the highway code?! Are they expecting pedestrians to smile and wave to the happy motorists as they beckon them to cross? I'm sure the idea sounded wonderful as they all sat round on their beanbags in the open plan free-thinking workspace sipping their lattes discussing how to make the world a more liberal place. Sorry, the real world just doesn't work like that. Too many people don't know how to drive a mini-roundabout at the best of times, let's take all the markings away and throw in some pedestrians into the mix, that'll make it safer?! Madness, utter madness. Can they present one single resident (without a personal interest) who actually thinks this is a good idea?

Sorry, Hackbridge is now on my avoid at all costs list, shame as I was just starting to like the place. I just pray the first fatality isn't from my family..........
Wow...... Just, wow!...... This could just be the daftest thing I've ever heard of. It would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that they are playing with people's lives. This is a catastrophic accident just waiting to happen. Is this type of junction even in the highway code?! Are they expecting pedestrians to smile and wave to the happy motorists as they beckon them to cross? I'm sure the idea sounded wonderful as they all sat round on their beanbags in the open plan free-thinking workspace sipping their lattes discussing how to make the world a more liberal place. Sorry, the real world just doesn't work like that. Too many people don't know how to drive a mini-roundabout at the best of times, let's take all the markings away and throw in some pedestrians into the mix, that'll make it safer?! Madness, utter madness. Can they present one single resident (without a personal interest) who actually thinks this is a good idea? Sorry, Hackbridge is now on my avoid at all costs list, shame as I was just starting to like the place. I just pray the first fatality isn't from my family.......... Jaws75
  • Score: 44

4:22pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Smileycat says...

I assumed the lines on the roundabout hadn't been added yet, you mean there aren't going to be any at all?! I have witnessed several near misses at this roundabout as cars don't know what they are supposed to be doing.
Also, a lot of cars stop right outside Sainsbury's so people can pop in for some milk, this causes a real hazard when you are driving around the corner and suddenly there is a car parked on the corner. I suppose there won't be any yellow lines here either?
My biggest complaint though is the lack of pedestrian crossings. I cross two roads at this junction to get from Nightingale Road to the station and cars no longer have to stop, so they don't. I often wait for several minutes before there is a gap big enough and then dash across the road effectively taking my life in my own hands. Cars very rarely stop to let people across. I cannot understand how anyone thought that getting rid of the pedestrian crossings was a good idea, at best it delays people crossing the road by several minutes and means they might miss their train and at worst, it is an accident waiting to happen.
I assumed the lines on the roundabout hadn't been added yet, you mean there aren't going to be any at all?! I have witnessed several near misses at this roundabout as cars don't know what they are supposed to be doing. Also, a lot of cars stop right outside Sainsbury's so people can pop in for some milk, this causes a real hazard when you are driving around the corner and suddenly there is a car parked on the corner. I suppose there won't be any yellow lines here either? My biggest complaint though is the lack of pedestrian crossings. I cross two roads at this junction to get from Nightingale Road to the station and cars no longer have to stop, so they don't. I often wait for several minutes before there is a gap big enough and then dash across the road effectively taking my life in my own hands. Cars very rarely stop to let people across. I cannot understand how anyone thought that getting rid of the pedestrian crossings was a good idea, at best it delays people crossing the road by several minutes and means they might miss their train and at worst, it is an accident waiting to happen. Smileycat
  • Score: 36

4:30pm Tue 22 Jul 14

stephie86 says...

....to add to my earlier comment.....
I have just watched the video and it is clear that they did in fact paint lines originally....and then tarmacked over them?! clearly at some point there was someone on the project who knew what they were doing! Bring them back!
....to add to my earlier comment..... I have just watched the video and it is clear that they did in fact paint lines originally....and then tarmacked over them?! clearly at some point there was someone on the project who knew what they were doing! Bring them back! stephie86
  • Score: 21

4:59pm Tue 22 Jul 14

wallyton says...

As someone who uses this junction as both a driver and a cyclist the new changes are incredibly confusing. The crossings are not marked as crossings so are drivers supposed to stop? There are no markings around the roundabout so that is unclear. As a cyclist making the road so narrow is the worst thing they could do. TfL/Sutton spent a lot of money widening the bridge over the railway so cyclists could finally use it without a big vehicle trying to knock them off but once you drop into the junction there is no space and frustrated drivers take it out on the cyclists. This feels completely unsafe to use now, and it is hard to see any benefits to anyone apart from the shops who have a little bit more parking space.
As someone who uses this junction as both a driver and a cyclist the new changes are incredibly confusing. The crossings are not marked as crossings so are drivers supposed to stop? There are no markings around the roundabout so that is unclear. As a cyclist making the road so narrow is the worst thing they could do. TfL/Sutton spent a lot of money widening the bridge over the railway so cyclists could finally use it without a big vehicle trying to knock them off but once you drop into the junction there is no space and frustrated drivers take it out on the cyclists. This feels completely unsafe to use now, and it is hard to see any benefits to anyone apart from the shops who have a little bit more parking space. wallyton
  • Score: 27

4:59pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Lani51 says...

Is this 'Project' ever going to be finished?
At present the powers that be are discussing what road markings and signs (if any) are going to be at this junction.
Maybe they will wait until there is an accident? I sincerely hope not.
All through this the comments of the near resident, parents from the school and some of the shop keepers have been ignored. They have changed the plans without consultation to suit themselves..
At least one of the major issues has gone away until September.
I think there is a script being used by the MP, councillors and borough staff which states that this is safer, it is being used elsewhere (don't you know). In some small town on a C road I expect!!!
Come on SUTTON COUNCIL - admit you got it wrong for goodness sake!!!
Is this 'Project' ever going to be finished? At present the powers that be are discussing what road markings and signs (if any) are going to be at this junction. Maybe they will wait until there is an accident? I sincerely hope not. All through this the comments of the near resident, parents from the school and some of the shop keepers have been ignored. They have changed the plans without consultation to suit themselves.. At least one of the major issues has gone away until September. I think there is a script being used by the MP, councillors and borough staff which states that this is safer, it is being used elsewhere (don't you know). In some small town on a C road I expect!!! Come on SUTTON COUNCIL - admit you got it wrong for goodness sake!!! Lani51
  • Score: 23

7:58pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Tink07 says...

I have emailed sutton council, local ward councillors, local councillors, sutton guardian ! (Our story actually appeared in last weeks issue of the paper, page 6... Operation Lollipop !) the new 6 courtesy crossings are an accident waiting to happen. We managed to gather over 450 signatures in order to try and get the lollipop officer a permanent fixture on Hackbridge Road to safely assist the children (to school and from) residents,elderly. The lollipop officer was a great success with everyone in Hackbridge. Today was her last day. We are aware a third safety audit is going to be carried out. To be honest most people thought the 6 crossings were going to stand out a lot more than they do .. The red road either side is really a black road with red specks on it. I actually saw a taxi driver park up on one of the crossings, let his passenger out to go to the shop. The roundall .. Well what can be said about the roundall ... Drivers don't even know what they are are suppose to do with it .. Drive round it? Drive over it ?
I have emailed sutton council, local ward councillors, local councillors, sutton guardian ! (Our story actually appeared in last weeks issue of the paper, page 6... Operation Lollipop !) the new 6 courtesy crossings are an accident waiting to happen. We managed to gather over 450 signatures in order to try and get the lollipop officer a permanent fixture on Hackbridge Road to safely assist the children (to school and from) residents,elderly. The lollipop officer was a great success with everyone in Hackbridge. Today was her last day. We are aware a third safety audit is going to be carried out. To be honest most people thought the 6 crossings were going to stand out a lot more than they do .. The red road either side is really a black road with red specks on it. I actually saw a taxi driver park up on one of the crossings, let his passenger out to go to the shop. The roundall .. Well what can be said about the roundall ... Drivers don't even know what they are are suppose to do with it .. Drive round it? Drive over it ? Tink07
  • Score: 24

8:23pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Tink07 says...

Just to add to my above comment ..
QUOTE
The old zebra crossings have been replaced with six courtesy crossings that encourage pedestrians to make eye contact with drivers who, in turn, will slow down and let them across.

One question .. How are the partially blind and blind suppose to make eye contact with drivers ?
I contacted two charities in the area with regards to this and was referred to call sutton council planning / highways department !
Just to add to my above comment .. QUOTE The old zebra crossings have been replaced with six courtesy crossings that encourage pedestrians to make eye contact with drivers who, in turn, will slow down and let them across. One question .. How are the partially blind and blind suppose to make eye contact with drivers ? I contacted two charities in the area with regards to this and was referred to call sutton council planning / highways department ! Tink07
  • Score: 21

8:28pm Tue 22 Jul 14

woowoowend says...

I really am gob smacked at sutton councils blinkered view of this junction, and am so angry with them, if anyone has an accident at this junction I would advise them to sue the council for their stupidity in thinking this round thing and walkways work.......
I really am gob smacked at sutton councils blinkered view of this junction, and am so angry with them, if anyone has an accident at this junction I would advise them to sue the council for their stupidity in thinking this round thing and walkways work....... woowoowend
  • Score: 20

8:36pm Tue 22 Jul 14

CJ_the_vampire says...

After months of disruption this new scheme is now up and running, and I honestly think that whoever designed and implemented it must have taken leave of their senses. Such schemes CAN work, but not when used in isolation like this one. Neither pedestrians nor road users have any idea of the concept of shared space and I do not believe that any attempt has been made to educate either group on this new approach to road sharing. The scheme is poorly signed, poorly thought out and poorly implemented. Yet another sign that the local authority has lost touch with those whom they profess to represent.
After months of disruption this new scheme is now up and running, and I honestly think that whoever designed and implemented it must have taken leave of their senses. Such schemes CAN work, but not when used in isolation like this one. Neither pedestrians nor road users have any idea of the concept of shared space and I do not believe that any attempt has been made to educate either group on this new approach to road sharing. The scheme is poorly signed, poorly thought out and poorly implemented. Yet another sign that the local authority has lost touch with those whom they profess to represent. CJ_the_vampire
  • Score: 18

8:48pm Tue 22 Jul 14

jojonige says...

It's absolutely ludicrous to take away two zebra crossings and replace with 'informal crossings' nobody ever stops and you with your children are forced to step out in the road in front of cars to make them stop. A child/ parent etc is going to get killed, it is a matter of time. They would rather spend money on 'benches' and 'splashes of colour' and flowers than money on keeping our children safe! Its outrageous!
It's absolutely ludicrous to take away two zebra crossings and replace with 'informal crossings' nobody ever stops and you with your children are forced to step out in the road in front of cars to make them stop. A child/ parent etc is going to get killed, it is a matter of time. They would rather spend money on 'benches' and 'splashes of colour' and flowers than money on keeping our children safe! Its outrageous! jojonige
  • Score: 20

8:54pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Tinks112 says...

I am a mum with 3 children that attend Hackbridge Primary. This new road layout is ridiculous, it's unsafe for our children as drivers don't need to stop, you make eye contact but they still drive pass. . There is an accident waiting to happen and then when it does what will happen? The Roundel is dangerous cars just think it's a free for all. And as for the cars and lorrys parking outside Sainsburys it's a hazard to pedestrians. Something needs to be done the safety audit needs to be done at the busy periods not when it's quiet and no pupils trying to cross the road.
I am a mum with 3 children that attend Hackbridge Primary. This new road layout is ridiculous, it's unsafe for our children as drivers don't need to stop, you make eye contact but they still drive pass. . There is an accident waiting to happen and then when it does what will happen? The Roundel is dangerous cars just think it's a free for all. And as for the cars and lorrys parking outside Sainsburys it's a hazard to pedestrians. Something needs to be done the safety audit needs to be done at the busy periods not when it's quiet and no pupils trying to cross the road. Tinks112
  • Score: 20

8:56pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Iangrand says...

Hackbridge Corner is now very difficult for pedestrians and cyclists. Some sort of formal pedestrian crossing and clear signing for cyclists is essential to avoid a potential accident!
Hackbridge Corner is now very difficult for pedestrians and cyclists. Some sort of formal pedestrian crossing and clear signing for cyclists is essential to avoid a potential accident! Iangrand
  • Score: 14

8:57pm Tue 22 Jul 14

fairywings32 says...

I think its an absolute outrage that they would even think of taking zebra crossings away from near a school where they know children and parents walk everyday. we try and teach our children road saftey about stopping when they see a zebra crossing and waiting as cars have to stop, do they really thing that if a child is waiting to cross these "courtesy crossings" that cars are going to stop! They don't even stop for adults. How are parents going to be able to let there children start walking to school on there own or with friends when we know there isn't a safe enough crossing for them!
I think its an absolute outrage that they would even think of taking zebra crossings away from near a school where they know children and parents walk everyday. we try and teach our children road saftey about stopping when they see a zebra crossing and waiting as cars have to stop, do they really thing that if a child is waiting to cross these "courtesy crossings" that cars are going to stop! They don't even stop for adults. How are parents going to be able to let there children start walking to school on there own or with friends when we know there isn't a safe enough crossing for them! fairywings32
  • Score: 20

8:58pm Tue 22 Jul 14

durbobman says...

it is sad how the look of Hackbridge has taken precedence over the safety of its residence. taking away zebra crossing which you are legally required to stop at and replacing them with crossings that road users have no need to stop at is crazy.

taking out central reserves so you can't even cross one side at a time.

what happens is one side stop for you and the other side doesn't, leaving you standing in the middle of the road with your children and pushchair.

a number of people have started crossing, only to be nearly knocked down by a motorbike overtaking the car that is attempting to let them cross.

the round-a-rondel thing isn't even central, meaning that if approaching from the bridge when the odd person is actually going around it they nearly get hit by the car behind who thinks that they are turning left.

at least this mess isn't right next to a school, oh wait, it is!
it is sad how the look of Hackbridge has taken precedence over the safety of its residence. taking away zebra crossing which you are legally required to stop at and replacing them with crossings that road users have no need to stop at is crazy. taking out central reserves so you can't even cross one side at a time. what happens is one side stop for you and the other side doesn't, leaving you standing in the middle of the road with your children and pushchair. a number of people have started crossing, only to be nearly knocked down by a motorbike overtaking the car that is attempting to let them cross. the round-a-rondel thing isn't even central, meaning that if approaching from the bridge when the odd person is actually going around it they nearly get hit by the car behind who thinks that they are turning left. at least this mess isn't right next to a school, oh wait, it is! durbobman
  • Score: 23

9:08pm Tue 22 Jul 14

jekalm says...

My daughter goes to Hackbridge school so we used to use the zebra crossing every day with no problem, but since all of these have been taken away Hackbridge is a nightmare. No one knows what they should and shouldn't be doing. The thing that looks like a roundabout isn't a roundabout as driver's do not know what to do, most do not see it and just drive over it. The so called crossings now are a joke, no one stops and is an accident waiting to happen. When the lollipop lady was there we was all happy and felt safe but now she has gone I think most people will avoid Hackbridge and park away from the shops because they feel for their own safety! I do not think Hackbridge looks nice at all and I feel the traffic will get even worse once all the new flats etc are built. Give us our zebra crossings back!!
My daughter goes to Hackbridge school so we used to use the zebra crossing every day with no problem, but since all of these have been taken away Hackbridge is a nightmare. No one knows what they should and shouldn't be doing. The thing that looks like a roundabout isn't a roundabout as driver's do not know what to do, most do not see it and just drive over it. The so called crossings now are a joke, no one stops and is an accident waiting to happen. When the lollipop lady was there we was all happy and felt safe but now she has gone I think most people will avoid Hackbridge and park away from the shops because they feel for their own safety! I do not think Hackbridge looks nice at all and I feel the traffic will get even worse once all the new flats etc are built. Give us our zebra crossings back!! jekalm
  • Score: 16

9:10pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Gene Genie says...

I have to use this junction every day - my two children go to Hackbridge Primary. I am appalled that Sutton Council think that this is an improvement. Every day there are near misses on the so-called roundel - no road marking, no drivers giving way! And don't get me started at trying to cross the roads - a total nightmare - totally reliant on drivers stopping to let you cross, I've stood there for about ten minutes, on several occasions and then took my life in my hands and ran! I would suggest that someone from Sutton Council moves into the area and tries to live with this abomination of a junction!
I have to use this junction every day - my two children go to Hackbridge Primary. I am appalled that Sutton Council think that this is an improvement. Every day there are near misses on the so-called roundel - no road marking, no drivers giving way! And don't get me started at trying to cross the roads - a total nightmare - totally reliant on drivers stopping to let you cross, I've stood there for about ten minutes, on several occasions and then took my life in my hands and ran! I would suggest that someone from Sutton Council moves into the area and tries to live with this abomination of a junction! Gene Genie
  • Score: 17

9:22pm Tue 22 Jul 14

jojonige says...

Lets's hope something is done immediately otherwise they will have a lawsuit on their hands !
Lets's hope something is done immediately otherwise they will have a lawsuit on their hands ! jojonige
  • Score: 12

9:27pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Natty35 says...

Can't understand why this new layout is better!!
It's crazy would of said traffic calming was needed on Hackbridge road outside school?!?! But I feel this new project has made this worse with cars parking poorly! And drivers speeding away from crossings! Not happy if my children did not attend the school I would defiantly avoid the area!
Can't understand why this new layout is better!! It's crazy would of said traffic calming was needed on Hackbridge road outside school?!?! But I feel this new project has made this worse with cars parking poorly! And drivers speeding away from crossings! Not happy if my children did not attend the school I would defiantly avoid the area! Natty35
  • Score: 13

9:38pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Jaws75 says...

The more I think of this the more angry I become. There have been too many accidents and too much tragedy on the roads lately. All accidents can be prevented with hindsight, that's the unfortunate nature of it. To have a situation where anyone of reasonable intelligence can easily see any number of ways that a fatal accident can occur, and then to promote it as safe with a sense of community is bordering on criminal. This is not some quiet backwater where a car comes along every half hour or so at 10mph and happily beckons the smiling mums and kids to cross, like it or not this is a major thoroughfare into London with all the cars, lorries and buses that go with it.

Utter madness........
The more I think of this the more angry I become. There have been too many accidents and too much tragedy on the roads lately. All accidents can be prevented with hindsight, that's the unfortunate nature of it. To have a situation where anyone of reasonable intelligence can easily see any number of ways that a fatal accident can occur, and then to promote it as safe with a sense of community is bordering on criminal. This is not some quiet backwater where a car comes along every half hour or so at 10mph and happily beckons the smiling mums and kids to cross, like it or not this is a major thoroughfare into London with all the cars, lorries and buses that go with it. Utter madness........ Jaws75
  • Score: 15

9:42pm Tue 22 Jul 14

hackbridge-resident says...

This is just an accident waiting to happen! I can not believe that in an effort to make the area "safer" all recognised and legally enforceable crossings and road markings have been removed and replaced by an informal system that relies on courtesy, assumption and a leap of faith!! We are expected to catch the attention of drivers and show our intention to cross and wait for traffic on both sides to stop before attempting to cross. How is this even possible?!! You can't look both ways at the same time so you end up standing in the middle of a busy main road, without the safety of at least a traffic island as they removed those too, hoping someone will stop!! And what of blind and disabled people? As for aiming to slow drivers down by confusing them, what the hell? Who on earth thought that was a good idea?!! The whole thing is a joke. Except it's not funny and could end up killing someone.
This is just an accident waiting to happen! I can not believe that in an effort to make the area "safer" all recognised and legally enforceable crossings and road markings have been removed and replaced by an informal system that relies on courtesy, assumption and a leap of faith!! We are expected to catch the attention of drivers and show our intention to cross and wait for traffic on both sides to stop before attempting to cross. How is this even possible?!! You can't look both ways at the same time so you end up standing in the middle of a busy main road, without the safety of at least a traffic island as they removed those too, hoping someone will stop!! And what of blind and disabled people? As for aiming to slow drivers down by confusing them, what the hell? Who on earth thought that was a good idea?!! The whole thing is a joke. Except it's not funny and could end up killing someone. hackbridge-resident
  • Score: 17

9:43pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Giles C says...

Well ladies and gentlemen of Hackbridge you just voted in 3 Lib Dem cllrs and with increased majority's so they must be doing something right..or perhaps apathy got the better of most people and look what you have ended up with.
I agree with all the comments above and almost came to stick end myself last week at the non existent roundabout..where are the signs telling people of a new road layout for a start...

Sutton council have gone to war on the motorist and in an act of perverse logic will end up killing pedestrians..
Good effort
Well ladies and gentlemen of Hackbridge you just voted in 3 Lib Dem cllrs and with increased majority's so they must be doing something right..or perhaps apathy got the better of most people and look what you have ended up with. I agree with all the comments above and almost came to stick end myself last week at the non existent roundabout..where are the signs telling people of a new road layout for a start... Sutton council have gone to war on the motorist and in an act of perverse logic will end up killing pedestrians.. Good effort Giles C
  • Score: 17

9:50pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Stressymissp says...

Words fail me. Wow there's a lovely video. That's ok then. Funny how it doesn't show the constant near misses, the utter confusion from both pedestrians and drivers and the near impossibility of crossing the road. I'm sick of being told to wait and see. Wait and see what? Wait and see how many people get killed or injured before Sutton Council finally listen to residents concerns and put some sensible crossings in or at the very least some road markings. It was deemed necessary to put road markings in during the road works but they were then taken away. The attitude is that drivers will slow down as they're so baffled and confused. Of course while drivers are trying to work out if they give way or not they aren't really considering pedestrians. The whole scheme is ludicrous with both the Council and the designers passing the buck. For once can someone just do the right thing, stop blaming everyone else and get it sorted.
Words fail me. Wow there's a lovely video. That's ok then. Funny how it doesn't show the constant near misses, the utter confusion from both pedestrians and drivers and the near impossibility of crossing the road. I'm sick of being told to wait and see. Wait and see what? Wait and see how many people get killed or injured before Sutton Council finally listen to residents concerns and put some sensible crossings in or at the very least some road markings. It was deemed necessary to put road markings in during the road works but they were then taken away. The attitude is that drivers will slow down as they're so baffled and confused. Of course while drivers are trying to work out if they give way or not they aren't really considering pedestrians. The whole scheme is ludicrous with both the Council and the designers passing the buck. For once can someone just do the right thing, stop blaming everyone else and get it sorted. Stressymissp
  • Score: 20

9:52pm Tue 22 Jul 14

sentech20 says...

It has bought a sense of community spirit I agree. Yes, we all share equal contempt for this utterly ridiculous road and pedestrian crossing (I use this label loosely) that has been thrust upon us. It is a fatality waiting to happen. I thought the planning committee would have had an ounce of intelligence between them to realise how important it would be to have safe and proper crossing facilities outside a primary school. Alas it seems they do not. Taking my daughter to and from school was like running the gauntlet until the temporary lollipop person was employed and now she has been taken away. God knows what it will be like now. We also should remember that we have a high volume of elderly people in the Hackbridge area who I know are now too frightened to venture to the local shops as they cannot cross the roads. This whole project needs to be readdressed and redone NOW!
It has bought a sense of community spirit I agree. Yes, we all share equal contempt for this utterly ridiculous road and pedestrian crossing (I use this label loosely) that has been thrust upon us. It is a fatality waiting to happen. I thought the planning committee would have had an ounce of intelligence between them to realise how important it would be to have safe and proper crossing facilities outside a primary school. Alas it seems they do not. Taking my daughter to and from school was like running the gauntlet until the temporary lollipop person was employed and now she has been taken away. God knows what it will be like now. We also should remember that we have a high volume of elderly people in the Hackbridge area who I know are now too frightened to venture to the local shops as they cannot cross the roads. This whole project needs to be readdressed and redone NOW! sentech20
  • Score: 22

9:56pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Noddyblanket says...

I agree with all of the above comments. I breathed a big sigh of relief the day I broke up on maternity leave and don't have to use that dangerous road twice a day. Nobody has a clue what they're doing. I myself don't actually know for sure what the difference between a rondel and a roundabout is. I have sat in the middle of the road whilst nobody gives way to the right on it most times I use it. I am courteous to pedestrians and then feel terrible for putting them in danger when they are left standing in in the middle of the road when nobody stops the other side. I've been screamed at when the temporary traffic lights weren't working in synch and seen many a road rage incident. Cyclists are not safe at all. Commuters are missing their trains. Children and parents can't cross safely. Elderly people feel vulnerable. In fact, colleagues from work have said they cross at the same time as school children alongside the lollipop lady. Nobody has any respect at for people safety when parking, especially by the school outside sainsburys. I saw that in the audit it was concluded that cars didn't stop on the zebra crossings. I used that road twice a day for some years and I don't think I ever saw that happen once! Just feel sad that someone will probably get hurt over a few bloomin stripes and parking restrictions!
I agree with all of the above comments. I breathed a big sigh of relief the day I broke up on maternity leave and don't have to use that dangerous road twice a day. Nobody has a clue what they're doing. I myself don't actually know for sure what the difference between a rondel and a roundabout is. I have sat in the middle of the road whilst nobody gives way to the right on it most times I use it. I am courteous to pedestrians and then feel terrible for putting them in danger when they are left standing in in the middle of the road when nobody stops the other side. I've been screamed at when the temporary traffic lights weren't working in synch and seen many a road rage incident. Cyclists are not safe at all. Commuters are missing their trains. Children and parents can't cross safely. Elderly people feel vulnerable. In fact, colleagues from work have said they cross at the same time as school children alongside the lollipop lady. Nobody has any respect at for people safety when parking, especially by the school outside sainsburys. I saw that in the audit it was concluded that cars didn't stop on the zebra crossings. I used that road twice a day for some years and I don't think I ever saw that happen once! Just feel sad that someone will probably get hurt over a few bloomin stripes and parking restrictions! Noddyblanket
  • Score: 16

9:58pm Tue 22 Jul 14

itsonlyme2 says...

This new lay out is an absolute joke. Its only a matter of time before an accident happens. Im speaking not only as a driver (id rather drive the long way than experience this shambles) but also a pedestrian (I take my life in my own hands crossing at any one of the courtesy crossings) also your idea of flowers.... you'll find they are mainly weeds. Its an accident waiting to happen oh wait even that had happened already
This new lay out is an absolute joke. Its only a matter of time before an accident happens. Im speaking not only as a driver (id rather drive the long way than experience this shambles) but also a pedestrian (I take my life in my own hands crossing at any one of the courtesy crossings) also your idea of flowers.... you'll find they are mainly weeds. Its an accident waiting to happen oh wait even that had happened already itsonlyme2
  • Score: 15

10:01pm Tue 22 Jul 14

suwarren says...

Dear Sutton Council: you are playing Russian Roulette with the residents of Hackbridge. Do you really need a fatality on your hands before you realise how dangerous this junction now is?

You could have put in:
A roundabout
A 3-way set of traffic lights
Pedestrian controlled traffic lights

... or you could at least have put the zebra crossings back in place.

What you have done, in removing all requirements for traffic to stop for each other, and for pedestrians, is create a terrifying environment. Sure, it "looks pleasant" - but it doesn't keep anyone safe.

For goodness' sake, PLEASE put some markings on the roundel, make it into a roundabout - even if you refuse to do anything more, you'll immediately drop the number of "near-misses" being noted daily.

But, while you've got the paint out, how about colouring in the crossings, with some elegant black stripes across the "white" "courtesy" crossings? (There's nothing courteous about standing in the road, praying for motorists to notice you and stop)

If you watch the time lapse footage, at the end, where the work is complete, you can see that virtually no-one who's going from Wallington towards Mitcham actually goes round the roundel. They don't even slow down.

If you think we're all being melodramatic about the risk of death at Hackbridge Corner, then I challenge you to cross the road during rush hour. Even during the holidays, it's going to be dangerous. As many others have said, what do those who can't make eye contact do? Or those who don't cross quickly? Without any legal requirement for traffic to stop for pedestrians, traffic won't stop. And before long, Sutton Council, you will find that you're being sued in personal injury claims, or held responsible in court for manslaughter.

Come on! There IS something that you can do, to make it safe here again. Stop hiding behind claims that it works elsewhere, and see that this system does not, cannot, and will not work in Hackbridge.
Dear Sutton Council: you are playing Russian Roulette with the residents of Hackbridge. Do you really need a fatality on your hands before you realise how dangerous this junction now is? You could have put in: A roundabout A 3-way set of traffic lights Pedestrian controlled traffic lights ... or you could at least have put the zebra crossings back in place. What you have done, in removing all requirements for traffic to stop for each other, and for pedestrians, is create a terrifying environment. Sure, it "looks pleasant" - but it doesn't keep anyone safe. For goodness' sake, PLEASE put some markings on the roundel, make it into a roundabout - even if you refuse to do anything more, you'll immediately drop the number of "near-misses" being noted daily. But, while you've got the paint out, how about colouring in the crossings, with some elegant black stripes across the "white" "courtesy" crossings? (There's nothing courteous about standing in the road, praying for motorists to notice you and stop) If you watch the time lapse footage, at the end, where the work is complete, you can see that virtually no-one who's going from Wallington towards Mitcham actually goes round the roundel. They don't even slow down. If you think we're all being melodramatic about the risk of death at Hackbridge Corner, then I challenge you to cross the road during rush hour. Even during the holidays, it's going to be dangerous. As many others have said, what do those who can't make eye contact do? Or those who don't cross quickly? Without any legal requirement for traffic to stop for pedestrians, traffic won't stop. And before long, Sutton Council, you will find that you're being sued in personal injury claims, or held responsible in court for manslaughter. Come on! There IS something that you can do, to make it safe here again. Stop hiding behind claims that it works elsewhere, and see that this system does not, cannot, and will not work in Hackbridge. suwarren
  • Score: 27

10:13pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Noddyblanket says...

Surely they can't think this many people just don't 'like change' ...?
Surely they can't think this many people just don't 'like change' ...? Noddyblanket
  • Score: 15

10:15pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Leannemc says...

I am partially sighted and now feel alienated from the community I live in, I go out of my way to avoid the 'heart of Hackbridge as I want mine to still be beating tomorrow. Moreover I am tired of hearing this is a community based project, where are the comments from those who think it is an improvement.
I am partially sighted and now feel alienated from the community I live in, I go out of my way to avoid the 'heart of Hackbridge as I want mine to still be beating tomorrow. Moreover I am tired of hearing this is a community based project, where are the comments from those who think it is an improvement. Leannemc
  • Score: 27

10:18pm Tue 22 Jul 14

Jaws75 says...

Thank you suwarren, that's the nail on the head. The first fatal accident at this junction won't be a pedestrian at rush hour, at least then people are scared and really paying attention. What scares me is a car travelling from Wallington to Mitcham at a quiet time perhaps late at night, crossing paths with a car travelling from Mitcham to Carshalton. Perhaps driver A is unfamiliar with the junction, perhaps driver B assumes he has right of way (does he?? can someone point me to the correct part of the highway code?), as it stands driver A will assume he has right of way, there's no signage, no stop line, it's a straight line over the junction. 'IF' both cars are travelling at 30mph, well the effects of two cars colliding head on at 30mph are devastating, terrifyingly so, and that's at a legal speed...... I pray I'm wrong, but as it stands I'm just waiting for the horrifying headlines of another devastating accident.....
Thank you suwarren, that's the nail on the head. The first fatal accident at this junction won't be a pedestrian at rush hour, at least then people are scared and really paying attention. What scares me is a car travelling from Wallington to Mitcham at a quiet time perhaps late at night, crossing paths with a car travelling from Mitcham to Carshalton. Perhaps driver A is unfamiliar with the junction, perhaps driver B assumes he has right of way (does he?? can someone point me to the correct part of the highway code?), as it stands driver A will assume he has right of way, there's no signage, no stop line, it's a straight line over the junction. 'IF' both cars are travelling at 30mph, well the effects of two cars colliding head on at 30mph are devastating, terrifyingly so, and that's at a legal speed...... I pray I'm wrong, but as it stands I'm just waiting for the horrifying headlines of another devastating accident..... Jaws75
  • Score: 13

10:52pm Tue 22 Jul 14

dormouse45 says...

As a senior citizen I am afraid to cross the road at Hackbridge. I did as I was told and stood at the courtesy crossing, eyeballs the drivers, smiled, tentatively stepped out. NOT ON YOUR BELL ....nobody stopped. Took a while for a gap before I was able to do so. I think this whole set up is totally discriminatory. Able bodied people only welcomed in the heart of Hackbridge. Take heed if you are old, very young, disabled or visually impaired. That's equal ops for you! A caring council who has such tunnel vision that they do not want to hear any point of view but their own.
As a senior citizen I am afraid to cross the road at Hackbridge. I did as I was told and stood at the courtesy crossing, eyeballs the drivers, smiled, tentatively stepped out. NOT ON YOUR BELL ....nobody stopped. Took a while for a gap before I was able to do so. I think this whole set up is totally discriminatory. Able bodied people only welcomed in the heart of Hackbridge. Take heed if you are old, very young, disabled or visually impaired. That's equal ops for you! A caring council who has such tunnel vision that they do not want to hear any point of view but their own. dormouse45
  • Score: 12

10:55pm Tue 22 Jul 14

dormouse45 says...

dormouse45 wrote:
As a senior citizen I am afraid to cross the road at Hackbridge. I did as I was told and stood at the courtesy crossing, eyeballs the drivers, smiled, tentatively stepped out. NOT ON YOUR BELL ....nobody stopped. Took a while for a gap before I was able to do so. I think this whole set up is totally discriminatory. Able bodied people only welcomed in the heart of Hackbridge. Take heed if you are old, very young, disabled or visually impaired. That's equal ops for you! A caring council who has such tunnel vision that they do not want to hear any point of view but their own.
Please excuse predictive text errors! Should be NOT ON YOUR NEWLY!
[quote][p][bold]dormouse45[/bold] wrote: As a senior citizen I am afraid to cross the road at Hackbridge. I did as I was told and stood at the courtesy crossing, eyeballs the drivers, smiled, tentatively stepped out. NOT ON YOUR BELL ....nobody stopped. Took a while for a gap before I was able to do so. I think this whole set up is totally discriminatory. Able bodied people only welcomed in the heart of Hackbridge. Take heed if you are old, very young, disabled or visually impaired. That's equal ops for you! A caring council who has such tunnel vision that they do not want to hear any point of view but their own.[/p][/quote]Please excuse predictive text errors! Should be NOT ON YOUR NEWLY! dormouse45
  • Score: 5

10:56pm Tue 22 Jul 14

dormouse45 says...

Nelly
Nelly dormouse45
  • Score: 6

4:55am Wed 23 Jul 14

snowy43 says...

As a parent of a child who attends Hackbridge Primary I find the new road layout confusing, dangerous and an accident waiting to happen. No one seems to travel at the new 20mph limit, the speed limit signs are far too small, where's the normal big 20mph signs you see everywhere else? Other schools have larger signs why can't Hackbridge? It seems the planners havent taken the school position into account, what bright spark thought no zebra crossings in the vicinity of a school would improve safety!! As for consultation with the community, why weren't parents at the school consulted, surly we should have had a say in the safety of our children. Come on Sutton Council be sensible and make Hackbridge safe again, do you the death of a child or anyone else on your conscience!
As a parent of a child who attends Hackbridge Primary I find the new road layout confusing, dangerous and an accident waiting to happen. No one seems to travel at the new 20mph limit, the speed limit signs are far too small, where's the normal big 20mph signs you see everywhere else? Other schools have larger signs why can't Hackbridge? It seems the planners havent taken the school position into account, what bright spark thought no zebra crossings in the vicinity of a school would improve safety!! As for consultation with the community, why weren't parents at the school consulted, surly we should have had a say in the safety of our children. Come on Sutton Council be sensible and make Hackbridge safe again, do you the death of a child or anyone else on your conscience! snowy43
  • Score: 15

8:15am Wed 23 Jul 14

David7 says...

A new concept in road junctions where the onus is on the pedestrian to make ‘eye contact’ with the drivers.

Apart from being a load of b******s, what could possibly go wrong?
A new concept in road junctions where the onus is on the pedestrian to make ‘eye contact’ with the drivers. Apart from being a load of b******s, what could possibly go wrong? David7
  • Score: 18

8:23am Wed 23 Jul 14

JMA2014 says...

I cannot believe this article. For months local residents and parents at the school have been contacting the council and Tom Brake to tell them how ridiculous this is. Informal crossing are completely unsuitable for this road and junction. Where do pedestrians and drivers stand legally. If there is an accident (which will happen , just give it time) will the insurers be happy with a system that does not appear in the highway code. Roads with less traffic use (eg, outside Carshalton College) have properly marked roundabouts and raised crossings. London Road is much busier.
I cannot believe this article. For months local residents and parents at the school have been contacting the council and Tom Brake to tell them how ridiculous this is. Informal crossing are completely unsuitable for this road and junction. Where do pedestrians and drivers stand legally. If there is an accident (which will happen , just give it time) will the insurers be happy with a system that does not appear in the highway code. Roads with less traffic use (eg, outside Carshalton College) have properly marked roundabouts and raised crossings. London Road is much busier. JMA2014
  • Score: 13

8:44am Wed 23 Jul 14

Tink07 says...

dormouse45 wrote:
As a senior citizen I am afraid to cross the road at Hackbridge. I did as I was told and stood at the courtesy crossing, eyeballs the drivers, smiled, tentatively stepped out. NOT ON YOUR BELL ....nobody stopped. Took a while for a gap before I was able to do so. I think this whole set up is totally discriminatory. Able bodied people only welcomed in the heart of Hackbridge. Take heed if you are old, very young, disabled or visually impaired. That's equal ops for you! A caring council who has such tunnel vision that they do not want to hear any point of view but their own.
That wasn't meant to be a thumbs down ..to your comment . Silly digit missed the thumbs up .... Totally agree with what you have said. I stood at one of the crossings with my daughter in her wheelchair .. Nobody slowed down, or stopped .. It was fortune favours the brave when we crossed.
[quote][p][bold]dormouse45[/bold] wrote: As a senior citizen I am afraid to cross the road at Hackbridge. I did as I was told and stood at the courtesy crossing, eyeballs the drivers, smiled, tentatively stepped out. NOT ON YOUR BELL ....nobody stopped. Took a while for a gap before I was able to do so. I think this whole set up is totally discriminatory. Able bodied people only welcomed in the heart of Hackbridge. Take heed if you are old, very young, disabled or visually impaired. That's equal ops for you! A caring council who has such tunnel vision that they do not want to hear any point of view but their own.[/p][/quote]That wasn't meant to be a thumbs down ..to your comment . Silly digit missed the thumbs up .... Totally agree with what you have said. I stood at one of the crossings with my daughter in her wheelchair .. Nobody slowed down, or stopped .. It was fortune favours the brave when we crossed. Tink07
  • Score: 11

8:51am Wed 23 Jul 14

Tubby Jim says...

this is possibly one of the very worst piece of traffic planning that I've ever seen, HTF can this have taken over a year to complete, its dangerous, pointless and probably very expensive , the model was probably taken from some new town in Denmark that has half a dozen cars an hour using it, this is one of the busiest roads in London! TfL and Sutton eopic fail!
this is possibly one of the very worst piece of traffic planning that I've ever seen, HTF can this have taken over a year to complete, its dangerous, pointless and probably very expensive , the model was probably taken from some new town in Denmark that has half a dozen cars an hour using it, this is one of the busiest roads in London! TfL and Sutton eopic fail! Tubby Jim
  • Score: 13

9:11am Wed 23 Jul 14

Emmadyer says...

Niki R wrote:
I'd like to see a timelapse of how many near misses there are on a daily basis, how many pedestrians are almost mown down or wait ages to cross, or how many confused drivers almost end up rear-ended by an impatient one behind.
Such a dangerous road now, several times I have been stuck in the middle of the road with my children and buggy because the drivers on the other side refuse to stop. Many of us went to the focus meeting and expressed our fears over cars not stopping for pedestrians on the zebra crossing and that we need pelican crossings to make them safer so what so they do... Take the crossings away completely and replace them with these stupid curtesy crossings, I really don't understand why they are putting our children's safety at risk all because painting black and white lines on the road does not conform to their artistic vision, the road lay out might well work elsewhere but it's just far too dangerous here
[quote][p][bold]Niki R[/bold] wrote: I'd like to see a timelapse of how many near misses there are on a daily basis, how many pedestrians are almost mown down or wait ages to cross, or how many confused drivers almost end up rear-ended by an impatient one behind.[/p][/quote]Such a dangerous road now, several times I have been stuck in the middle of the road with my children and buggy because the drivers on the other side refuse to stop. Many of us went to the focus meeting and expressed our fears over cars not stopping for pedestrians on the zebra crossing and that we need pelican crossings to make them safer so what so they do... Take the crossings away completely and replace them with these stupid curtesy crossings, I really don't understand why they are putting our children's safety at risk all because painting black and white lines on the road does not conform to their artistic vision, the road lay out might well work elsewhere but it's just far too dangerous here Emmadyer
  • Score: 20

9:54am Wed 23 Jul 14

David7 says...

If you are patient and freeze-frame the video, you will come across many instances of multiple vehicles on the ‘roundabout’, several instances of pedestrians being ignored at crossings, and even more instances of drivers not knowing when to give way and stopping on the junction.

I hope you’re looking forward to celebrating the first serious injury or the first death, Sutton Council, because as your own footage shows, tragically it’s only a matter of time – and I imagine a manslaughter charge would not be inappropriate.
If you are patient and freeze-frame the video, you will come across many instances of multiple vehicles on the ‘roundabout’, several instances of pedestrians being ignored at crossings, and even more instances of drivers not knowing when to give way and stopping on the junction. I hope you’re looking forward to celebrating the first serious injury or the first death, Sutton Council, because as your own footage shows, tragically it’s only a matter of time – and I imagine a manslaughter charge would not be inappropriate. David7
  • Score: 18

9:56am Wed 23 Jul 14

Niki R says...

Perhaps we can rename it the 'Who Dares Wins' junction. While I appreciate that this might work well in a far quieter area, the busy junction of London and Hackbridge Roads is NOT the place to have conducted such an experiment. It's like the remodelling (wrecking) of the town centre all over again. Who on earth would have thought they'd get it so wrong twice?
Perhaps we can rename it the 'Who Dares Wins' junction. While I appreciate that this might work well in a far quieter area, the busy junction of London and Hackbridge Roads is NOT the place to have conducted such an experiment. It's like the remodelling (wrecking) of the town centre all over again. Who on earth would have thought they'd get it so wrong twice? Niki R
  • Score: 7

11:00am Wed 23 Jul 14

Sambull says...

Sutton council have spent money on NO practical use what so ever, the cars will always have there right of way but you cant assume drivers want stop and make eye contact, there are 3 long main roads attaching to the Hackbridge cortasherfy , drivers are ment to keep there eyes on the road and instuction to drive safely. Deaf, blind, disable, mental health, even able people have to be insured that there lives are safe and atleast one zebra crossing with stop lights give our rightvof way than waiting for a car, lorry, bus etc to stop from just eye contact and common sence. Also all the public links like train station, schools, doctures, dentist and bus stops that pedestrians have to cross the roads, cars only pass through Hackbridge.
Sutton council have spent money on NO practical use what so ever, the cars will always have there right of way but you cant assume drivers want stop and make eye contact, there are 3 long main roads attaching to the Hackbridge cortasherfy , drivers are ment to keep there eyes on the road and instuction to drive safely. Deaf, blind, disable, mental health, even able people have to be insured that there lives are safe and atleast one zebra crossing with stop lights give our rightvof way than waiting for a car, lorry, bus etc to stop from just eye contact and common sence. Also all the public links like train station, schools, doctures, dentist and bus stops that pedestrians have to cross the roads, cars only pass through Hackbridge. Sambull
  • Score: 4

11:07am Wed 23 Jul 14

Sambull says...

We make bad judgement and its our fault, but sutton council makes bad judgment and its okWELL ITS NOT!!! We are not just candidate numbers. The council need common sence as it may be there love ones that get hurt at Hackbridges corner!!!
YOU CAN NEVER ASSUME SAFETY ITS DANGEROUS
We make bad judgement and its our fault, but sutton council makes bad judgment and its okWELL ITS NOT!!! We are not just candidate numbers. The council need common sence as it may be there love ones that get hurt at Hackbridges corner!!! YOU CAN NEVER ASSUME SAFETY ITS DANGEROUS Sambull
  • Score: 9

12:19pm Wed 23 Jul 14

PeterM says...

I cycle through here on my way to work in London each day and I have seen the road narrowed from an acceptable width to a dangerously narrow one. Whilst I am an experienced and confident cyclist, prepared to take the lane through here, many are not and it is just a matter of time before there is a serious RTC due to this layout.

The 'cobbled' crossings are extremely unpleasant to ride over on my normal commuter bike and downright tooth rattling on my road bike.

The time lapse video just confirms what I see everyday, large numbers of vehicles ignoring the roundel in the middle of the 'roundabout'. Courtesy crossings do work on quiet back streets, but not on major through routes, which is what we have in Hackbridge.

The Emperors New Clothes springs to mind as far as Sutton Councillors and Tom Brake are concerned.
I cycle through here on my way to work in London each day and I have seen the road narrowed from an acceptable width to a dangerously narrow one. Whilst I am an experienced and confident cyclist, prepared to take the lane through here, many are not and it is just a matter of time before there is a serious RTC due to this layout. The 'cobbled' crossings are extremely unpleasant to ride over on my normal commuter bike and downright tooth rattling on my road bike. The time lapse video just confirms what I see everyday, large numbers of vehicles ignoring the roundel in the middle of the 'roundabout'. Courtesy crossings do work on quiet back streets, but not on major through routes, which is what we have in Hackbridge. The Emperors New Clothes springs to mind as far as Sutton Councillors and Tom Brake are concerned. PeterM
  • Score: 20

1:18pm Wed 23 Jul 14

Tink07 says...

Niki R wrote:
Perhaps we can rename it the 'Who Dares Wins' junction. While I appreciate that this might work well in a far quieter area, the busy junction of London and Hackbridge Roads is NOT the place to have conducted such an experiment. It's like the remodelling (wrecking) of the town centre all over again. Who on earth would have thought they'd get it so wrong twice?
I also like the phase "fortune favours the brave"!!
[quote][p][bold]Niki R[/bold] wrote: Perhaps we can rename it the 'Who Dares Wins' junction. While I appreciate that this might work well in a far quieter area, the busy junction of London and Hackbridge Roads is NOT the place to have conducted such an experiment. It's like the remodelling (wrecking) of the town centre all over again. Who on earth would have thought they'd get it so wrong twice?[/p][/quote]I also like the phase "fortune favours the brave"!! Tink07
  • Score: 5

2:16pm Wed 23 Jul 14

golfellis says...

I wholeheartedly agree with everyone that this stupid "roundabout that isn't" is a disaster waiting to happen!! I have nearly been sideswiped 3 times in the past week myself as there are no road markings and no one knows what the hell is going on. As for removing the zebra crossing's from the area, what genius thought of that???? A school and a station with no means of controlled crossing is absolute lunacy!!! Seriously Sutton Council sort it out before someone is hurt!!!
I wholeheartedly agree with everyone that this stupid "roundabout that isn't" is a disaster waiting to happen!! I have nearly been sideswiped 3 times in the past week myself as there are no road markings and no one knows what the hell is going on. As for removing the zebra crossing's from the area, what genius thought of that???? A school and a station with no means of controlled crossing is absolute lunacy!!! Seriously Sutton Council sort it out before someone is hurt!!! golfellis
  • Score: 16

6:22pm Wed 23 Jul 14

leapy says...

I wonder if any councillor or officer will reply to these comments.
I wonder if any councillor or officer will reply to these comments. leapy
  • Score: 6

6:42pm Wed 23 Jul 14

Noddyblanket says...

Be very careful everyone. This is the signage that has gone up now near the circle in the road. It's the sign for a mini roundabout. NOT a roundle. In order for it to be a mini roundabout it needs the arrows on it. Have no idea who would be help responsible if there was an accident on it what with the layout and signage contradicting each other?
https://www.gov.uk/g
overnment/uploads/sy
stem/uploads/attachm
ent_data/file/3899/m
ini-roundabouts-repo
rt.pdf
Be very careful everyone. This is the signage that has gone up now near the circle in the road. It's the sign for a mini roundabout. NOT a roundle. In order for it to be a mini roundabout it needs the arrows on it. Have no idea who would be help responsible if there was an accident on it what with the layout and signage contradicting each other? https://www.gov.uk/g overnment/uploads/sy stem/uploads/attachm ent_data/file/3899/m ini-roundabouts-repo rt.pdf Noddyblanket
  • Score: 6

6:49pm Wed 23 Jul 14

HackbridgeCossack says...

I can only reach one shop now thanks to the removal of proper pedestrian crossings. So all other Hackbridge shops have lost my trade. Epic fail number 1.
I won't cycle through Hackbridge now as the road is too narrow and I don't want to be killed by any of the angry car or truck drivers. Epic fail number 2.
I can only reach one shop now thanks to the removal of proper pedestrian crossings. So all other Hackbridge shops have lost my trade. Epic fail number 1. I won't cycle through Hackbridge now as the road is too narrow and I don't want to be killed by any of the angry car or truck drivers. Epic fail number 2. HackbridgeCossack
  • Score: 11

6:58pm Wed 23 Jul 14

Noddyblanket says...

Noddyblanket wrote:
Be very careful everyone. This is the signage that has gone up now near the circle in the road. It's the sign for a mini roundabout. NOT a roundle. In order for it to be a mini roundabout it needs the arrows on it. Have no idea who would be help responsible if there was an accident on it what with the layout and signage contradicting each other?
https://www.gov.uk/g

overnment/uploads/sy

stem/uploads/attachm

ent_data/file/3899/m

ini-roundabouts-repo

rt.pdf
"The project has been based around the junction of London Road and Hackbridge Road. The old system with zebra crossings has been replaced with a 'roundle', which is like a mini-roundabout but without lines to indicate the junction. The purpose of the roundle is to make drivers slow to think about what they need to do."

This is the most insane thing I've read in a long while. When driving you need to know what you're doing, black and white, END OF! Whilst you are actually driving the car is not a time for some road planner to say 'surprise' and give you a test to decide what you're supposed to be doing! What if the other person makes a different choice? Which will happen. Absolutely ridiculous!
[quote][p][bold]Noddyblanket[/bold] wrote: Be very careful everyone. This is the signage that has gone up now near the circle in the road. It's the sign for a mini roundabout. NOT a roundle. In order for it to be a mini roundabout it needs the arrows on it. Have no idea who would be help responsible if there was an accident on it what with the layout and signage contradicting each other? https://www.gov.uk/g overnment/uploads/sy stem/uploads/attachm ent_data/file/3899/m ini-roundabouts-repo rt.pdf[/p][/quote]"The project has been based around the junction of London Road and Hackbridge Road. The old system with zebra crossings has been replaced with a 'roundle', which is like a mini-roundabout but without lines to indicate the junction. The purpose of the roundle is to make drivers slow to think about what they need to do." This is the most insane thing I've read in a long while. When driving you need to know what you're doing, black and white, END OF! Whilst you are actually driving the car is not a time for some road planner to say 'surprise' and give you a test to decide what you're supposed to be doing! What if the other person makes a different choice? Which will happen. Absolutely ridiculous! Noddyblanket
  • Score: 10

7:17pm Wed 23 Jul 14

AliHar says...

This road system is an accident waiting to happen. This system may well have worked in other areas but not on a main through road from the M25 into London. The people who drive through Hackbridge have no vested interest in the area - they are just passing through. Saying people will get used to the system is madness as alot of drivers aren't local. Please see sense soon and at least put some signs up, road markings down and A ZEBRA CROSSING for our kids!!!!!!
This road system is an accident waiting to happen. This system may well have worked in other areas but not on a main through road from the M25 into London. The people who drive through Hackbridge have no vested interest in the area - they are just passing through. Saying people will get used to the system is madness as alot of drivers aren't local. Please see sense soon and at least put some signs up, road markings down and A ZEBRA CROSSING for our kids!!!!!! AliHar
  • Score: 9

8:18pm Wed 23 Jul 14

j.dins says...

its madness, nobody knows who has right of way, only roundabout signs are traffic boards propped up, no idea the raised bits are crossings, no lines to say what's going on. Every time i have used this there are drivers and pedestrians looking around trying to figure out where they are supposed to be, cars all pulling out at the same time people crossing everywhere. Sort it out before someone gets killed!
its madness, nobody knows who has right of way, only roundabout signs are traffic boards propped up, no idea the raised bits are crossings, no lines to say what's going on. Every time i have used this there are drivers and pedestrians looking around trying to figure out where they are supposed to be, cars all pulling out at the same time people crossing everywhere. Sort it out before someone gets killed! j.dins
  • Score: 6

8:53pm Wed 23 Jul 14

longfieldres says...

This is my first ever post but I have to say something as it is very obvious to everyone who uses these crossings that someone is going to be seriously injured soon and it is highly likely to be a school child.
Whilst it is wonderful to have investment in the area we must put child safety ahead of a pretty looking road.
From a drivers perspective, I do my best to allow for other drivers struggling with the new road system however I have already had three near misses.
We now need some serious journalism to cover this properly and not as a PR piece for the Council.
This is my first ever post but I have to say something as it is very obvious to everyone who uses these crossings that someone is going to be seriously injured soon and it is highly likely to be a school child. Whilst it is wonderful to have investment in the area we must put child safety ahead of a pretty looking road. From a drivers perspective, I do my best to allow for other drivers struggling with the new road system however I have already had three near misses. We now need some serious journalism to cover this properly and not as a PR piece for the Council. longfieldres
  • Score: 12

11:42pm Wed 23 Jul 14

leapy says...

longfieldres wrote:
This is my first ever post but I have to say something as it is very obvious to everyone who uses these crossings that someone is going to be seriously injured soon and it is highly likely to be a school child.
Whilst it is wonderful to have investment in the area we must put child safety ahead of a pretty looking road.
From a drivers perspective, I do my best to allow for other drivers struggling with the new road system however I have already had three near misses.
We now need some serious journalism to cover this properly and not as a PR piece for the Council.
Serious journalism and the Guardian?

This article/post is from a reporter who could not get the day and date correct for the Poppies on the Pond!
[quote][p][bold]longfieldres[/bold] wrote: This is my first ever post but I have to say something as it is very obvious to everyone who uses these crossings that someone is going to be seriously injured soon and it is highly likely to be a school child. Whilst it is wonderful to have investment in the area we must put child safety ahead of a pretty looking road. From a drivers perspective, I do my best to allow for other drivers struggling with the new road system however I have already had three near misses. We now need some serious journalism to cover this properly and not as a PR piece for the Council.[/p][/quote]Serious journalism and the Guardian? This article/post is from a reporter who could not get the day and date correct for the Poppies on the Pond! leapy
  • Score: 2

10:04am Thu 24 Jul 14

anonresidenthackbridge says...

I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction.

I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers.

Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.
I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction. I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers. Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now. anonresidenthackbridge
  • Score: -18

10:36am Thu 24 Jul 14

PeterM says...

anonresidenthackbrid
ge
wrote:
I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction.

I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers.

Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.
I agree that we should give it a chance, but unless we voice concerns now, the Council may well say "Why didn't you say something at the time".

I've cycled through the junction both before and after the changes, and I'm now experiencing more conflicts with drivers than when the road was wider. For example vehicles tailgating when I take the lane through the junction and tooting at me to 'Get out of the way' (never had this before the changes), cars overtaking in the narrow section and driving at me head on (that happened to me on Tuesday), and as I said in a post above, the road surface is now so rough for cyclists with the new cobbled crossings that I'm considering using Beddington Lane instead as that's a smoother ride!!!
[quote][p][bold]anonresidenthackbrid ge[/bold] wrote: I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction. I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers. Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.[/p][/quote]I agree that we should give it a chance, but unless we voice concerns now, the Council may well say "Why didn't you say something at the time". I've cycled through the junction both before and after the changes, and I'm now experiencing more conflicts with drivers than when the road was wider. For example vehicles tailgating when I take the lane through the junction and tooting at me to 'Get out of the way' (never had this before the changes), cars overtaking in the narrow section and driving at me head on (that happened to me on Tuesday), and as I said in a post above, the road surface is now so rough for cyclists with the new cobbled crossings that I'm considering using Beddington Lane instead as that's a smoother ride!!! PeterM
  • Score: 3

1:54pm Thu 24 Jul 14

hackbridgemum says...

Accident waiting to happen. Planners should take note of all the comments, and for the contributor who says we should be grateful that the council have given the corner funds in the first place, those are the taxpayers funds and I for one do not feel grateful they have now made this junction more hazardous! and absolute waste of my council tax for sure.
Accident waiting to happen. Planners should take note of all the comments, and for the contributor who says we should be grateful that the council have given the corner funds in the first place, those are the taxpayers funds and I for one do not feel grateful they have now made this junction more hazardous! and absolute waste of my council tax for sure. hackbridgemum
  • Score: 5

2:30pm Thu 24 Jul 14

Giles C says...

anonresidenthackbrid
ge
wrote:
I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction.

I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers.

Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.
can i just say that this isnt the councils resource they were spending but taxpayers money and grants from TFL and other govt agencies...
I was speaking to someone who was on the ctte who put this together yesterday and he owns a shop on the Hackbridge parade..even he said that the law of unintended consequences has been invoked here..Old people cant get across the road. This is a major arterial route into and out of London..it is not chipping Camden in the Cotswolds. TFL will not allow the route to be closed unless you put a bypass in as they did in Coulsdon and can you imagine how all the "swampys" would feel about that. How can you look an artic driver in the eye when he is 8 foot above you...its beyond parody..
[quote][p][bold]anonresidenthackbrid ge[/bold] wrote: I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction. I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers. Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.[/p][/quote]can i just say that this isnt the councils resource they were spending but taxpayers money and grants from TFL and other govt agencies... I was speaking to someone who was on the ctte who put this together yesterday and he owns a shop on the Hackbridge parade..even he said that the law of unintended consequences has been invoked here..Old people cant get across the road. This is a major arterial route into and out of London..it is not chipping Camden in the Cotswolds. TFL will not allow the route to be closed unless you put a bypass in as they did in Coulsdon and can you imagine how all the "swampys" would feel about that. How can you look an artic driver in the eye when he is 8 foot above you...its beyond parody.. Giles C
  • Score: 6

9:36pm Thu 24 Jul 14

jojonige says...

anonresidenthackbrid
ge
wrote:
I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction.

I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers.

Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.
How on earth can you think by what they have done has 'made Hackbridge safer?' What nonsense! How can it be when there is no safety measures put in place ? I cannot understand for the life of me why our children's safety is being IGNORED why is nobody listening??
[quote][p][bold]anonresidenthackbrid ge[/bold] wrote: I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction. I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers. Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.[/p][/quote]How on earth can you think by what they have done has 'made Hackbridge safer?' What nonsense! How can it be when there is no safety measures put in place ? I cannot understand for the life of me why our children's safety is being IGNORED why is nobody listening?? jojonige
  • Score: 3

9:39pm Thu 24 Jul 14

PeterM says...

jojonige wrote:
anonresidenthackbrid

ge
wrote:
I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction.

I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers.

Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.
How on earth can you think by what they have done has 'made Hackbridge safer?' What nonsense! How can it be when there is no safety measures put in place ? I cannot understand for the life of me why our children's safety is being IGNORED why is nobody listening??
Maybe because children aren't old enough to vote yet?
[quote][p][bold]jojonige[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]anonresidenthackbrid ge[/bold] wrote: I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction. I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers. Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.[/p][/quote]How on earth can you think by what they have done has 'made Hackbridge safer?' What nonsense! How can it be when there is no safety measures put in place ? I cannot understand for the life of me why our children's safety is being IGNORED why is nobody listening??[/p][/quote]Maybe because children aren't old enough to vote yet? PeterM
  • Score: -2

9:53pm Thu 24 Jul 14

jojonige says...

PeterM wrote:
jojonige wrote:
anonresidenthackbrid


ge
wrote:
I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction.

I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers.

Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.
How on earth can you think by what they have done has 'made Hackbridge safer?' What nonsense! How can it be when there is no safety measures put in place ? I cannot understand for the life of me why our children's safety is being IGNORED why is nobody listening??
Maybe because children aren't old enough to vote yet?
What a grown up comment!!!! you obviously think the whole thing is a joke, well who will be laughing when a child is killed due to this craziness?
[quote][p][bold]PeterM[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jojonige[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]anonresidenthackbrid ge[/bold] wrote: I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction. I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers. Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.[/p][/quote]How on earth can you think by what they have done has 'made Hackbridge safer?' What nonsense! How can it be when there is no safety measures put in place ? I cannot understand for the life of me why our children's safety is being IGNORED why is nobody listening??[/p][/quote]Maybe because children aren't old enough to vote yet?[/p][/quote]What a grown up comment!!!! you obviously think the whole thing is a joke, well who will be laughing when a child is killed due to this craziness? jojonige
  • Score: 0

10:00pm Thu 24 Jul 14

jojonige says...

What a grown up comment!!!! you obviously think the whole thing is a joke, well who will be laughing when a child is killed due to this craziness?
What a grown up comment!!!! you obviously think the whole thing is a joke, well who will be laughing when a child is killed due to this craziness? jojonige
  • Score: 0

10:01pm Thu 24 Jul 14

PeterM says...

jojonige wrote:
PeterM wrote:
jojonige wrote:
anonresidenthackbrid



ge
wrote:
I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction.

I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers.

Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.
How on earth can you think by what they have done has 'made Hackbridge safer?' What nonsense! How can it be when there is no safety measures put in place ? I cannot understand for the life of me why our children's safety is being IGNORED why is nobody listening??
Maybe because children aren't old enough to vote yet?
What a grown up comment!!!! you obviously think the whole thing is a joke, well who will be laughing when a child is killed due to this craziness?
Far from it, I'm taking this very seriously indeed.

What I meant by my comment was that because children can't vote then the politicians aren't at all worried because if a child is too scared to cross the road they're not going to lose any votes from them.

When the new road layout was initially installed I made a prediction that within a year there would be at least one KSI incident (Killed or Seriously Injured) I now feel that this will happen within six months.

The new road layout is DANGEROUS to all vulnerable road users.
[quote][p][bold]jojonige[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PeterM[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jojonige[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]anonresidenthackbrid ge[/bold] wrote: I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction. I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers. Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.[/p][/quote]How on earth can you think by what they have done has 'made Hackbridge safer?' What nonsense! How can it be when there is no safety measures put in place ? I cannot understand for the life of me why our children's safety is being IGNORED why is nobody listening??[/p][/quote]Maybe because children aren't old enough to vote yet?[/p][/quote]What a grown up comment!!!! you obviously think the whole thing is a joke, well who will be laughing when a child is killed due to this craziness?[/p][/quote]Far from it, I'm taking this very seriously indeed. What I meant by my comment was that because children can't vote then the politicians aren't at all worried because if a child is too scared to cross the road they're not going to lose any votes from them. When the new road layout was initially installed I made a prediction that within a year there would be at least one KSI incident (Killed or Seriously Injured) I now feel that this will happen within six months. The new road layout is DANGEROUS to all vulnerable road users. PeterM
  • Score: 4

10:34pm Thu 24 Jul 14

Lamb1982 says...

I had great difficulty crossing with my 2 children and I had to chance it and nobody was letting me cross. Russian roulette is not the game I want to play every day. It will come to someone being seriously injured or worst killed. I agree that it has cleaned up hackbridge but thinking about local residence as well as the two schools we have in the area we need something in place so that I have piece of mind that my 10 year old daughter can safely cross the road to get to school. An absolute sham.
I had great difficulty crossing with my 2 children and I had to chance it and nobody was letting me cross. Russian roulette is not the game I want to play every day. It will come to someone being seriously injured or worst killed. I agree that it has cleaned up hackbridge but thinking about local residence as well as the two schools we have in the area we need something in place so that I have piece of mind that my 10 year old daughter can safely cross the road to get to school. An absolute sham. Lamb1982
  • Score: 2

10:34pm Thu 24 Jul 14

Tink07 says...

Hackbridge is NOT a safer place now that the works have been "completed". But have they been completed .??..they have yet to put in the yellow lines on Hackbridge road outside sainsburys.
Photos have been taken this week of 1. A council dustbin vehicle pulling up on the courtesy crossing that the lollipop officer was on duty assisting CHILDREN across the road on Tuesday. Until the yellow lines are put in outside sainsburys vehicles are not breaking any laws .. A little common sense wouldn't go amiss! But actually pulling up on one of the new crossings ... Come on now !!
2. Another vehicle yesterday PARKED! On one of the courtesy crossings to go into the shop.
3. A taxi driver pulled up on one of the crossings to let his passenger out to visit the shop!!
All photos have been sent to sutton council.
As I said in my previous comment. A petition of over 450 signatures has been submitted to sutton council to have a lollipop officer permanently assisting our children safety to and from school. I know there are a lot of concerns regarding all the new road layout, but when the petition was started at the beginning of June our main aim at the time was to have someone permanently assisting the children. We now know that an urgent safety audit is to be undertake and then another in September when the children go back to school.
Hackbridge is NOT a safer place now that the works have been "completed". But have they been completed .??..they have yet to put in the yellow lines on Hackbridge road outside sainsburys. Photos have been taken this week of 1. A council dustbin vehicle pulling up on the courtesy crossing that the lollipop officer was on duty assisting CHILDREN across the road on Tuesday. Until the yellow lines are put in outside sainsburys vehicles are not breaking any laws .. A little common sense wouldn't go amiss! But actually pulling up on one of the new crossings ... Come on now !! 2. Another vehicle yesterday PARKED! On one of the courtesy crossings to go into the shop. 3. A taxi driver pulled up on one of the crossings to let his passenger out to visit the shop!! All photos have been sent to sutton council. As I said in my previous comment. A petition of over 450 signatures has been submitted to sutton council to have a lollipop officer permanently assisting our children safety to and from school. I know there are a lot of concerns regarding all the new road layout, but when the petition was started at the beginning of June our main aim at the time was to have someone permanently assisting the children. We now know that an urgent safety audit is to be undertake and then another in September when the children go back to school. Tink07
  • Score: 1

10:38pm Thu 24 Jul 14

Tink07 says...

PeterM wrote:
jojonige wrote:
PeterM wrote:
jojonige wrote:
anonresidenthackbrid




ge
wrote:
I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction.

I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers.

Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.
How on earth can you think by what they have done has 'made Hackbridge safer?' What nonsense! How can it be when there is no safety measures put in place ? I cannot understand for the life of me why our children's safety is being IGNORED why is nobody listening??
Maybe because children aren't old enough to vote yet?
What a grown up comment!!!! you obviously think the whole thing is a joke, well who will be laughing when a child is killed due to this craziness?
Far from it, I'm taking this very seriously indeed.

What I meant by my comment was that because children can't vote then the politicians aren't at all worried because if a child is too scared to cross the road they're not going to lose any votes from them.

When the new road layout was initially installed I made a prediction that within a year there would be at least one KSI incident (Killed or Seriously Injured) I now feel that this will happen within six months.

The new road layout is DANGEROUS to all vulnerable road users.
An accident has already happened by the new ramp situated on London road (as you come off the railway bridge ) a motorcycle came off his bike going over the ramp. He sustained some terrible injuries to both legs, arm and back
[quote][p][bold]PeterM[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jojonige[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PeterM[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jojonige[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]anonresidenthackbrid ge[/bold] wrote: I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction. I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers. Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.[/p][/quote]How on earth can you think by what they have done has 'made Hackbridge safer?' What nonsense! How can it be when there is no safety measures put in place ? I cannot understand for the life of me why our children's safety is being IGNORED why is nobody listening??[/p][/quote]Maybe because children aren't old enough to vote yet?[/p][/quote]What a grown up comment!!!! you obviously think the whole thing is a joke, well who will be laughing when a child is killed due to this craziness?[/p][/quote]Far from it, I'm taking this very seriously indeed. What I meant by my comment was that because children can't vote then the politicians aren't at all worried because if a child is too scared to cross the road they're not going to lose any votes from them. When the new road layout was initially installed I made a prediction that within a year there would be at least one KSI incident (Killed or Seriously Injured) I now feel that this will happen within six months. The new road layout is DANGEROUS to all vulnerable road users.[/p][/quote]An accident has already happened by the new ramp situated on London road (as you come off the railway bridge ) a motorcycle came off his bike going over the ramp. He sustained some terrible injuries to both legs, arm and back Tink07
  • Score: 1

11:21pm Thu 24 Jul 14

leapy says...

There are no signs indicating that you can park on the pavements or drive on them.
There are laws with regards to parking near/opposite junctions.
Delivery lorries to Sainsburys park on pavement obstructing crossings.
People are now driving down Elm Rd the wrong way.

No enforcement from LBS in any shape or form.
There are no signs indicating that you can park on the pavements or drive on them. There are laws with regards to parking near/opposite junctions. Delivery lorries to Sainsburys park on pavement obstructing crossings. People are now driving down Elm Rd the wrong way. No enforcement from LBS in any shape or form. leapy
  • Score: 0

8:10am Fri 25 Jul 14

Giles C says...

Tink07 wrote:
Hackbridge is NOT a safer place now that the works have been "completed". But have they been completed .??..they have yet to put in the yellow lines on Hackbridge road outside sainsburys.
Photos have been taken this week of 1. A council dustbin vehicle pulling up on the courtesy crossing that the lollipop officer was on duty assisting CHILDREN across the road on Tuesday. Until the yellow lines are put in outside sainsburys vehicles are not breaking any laws .. A little common sense wouldn't go amiss! But actually pulling up on one of the new crossings ... Come on now !!
2. Another vehicle yesterday PARKED! On one of the courtesy crossings to go into the shop.
3. A taxi driver pulled up on one of the crossings to let his passenger out to visit the shop!!
All photos have been sent to sutton council.
As I said in my previous comment. A petition of over 450 signatures has been submitted to sutton council to have a lollipop officer permanently assisting our children safety to and from school. I know there are a lot of concerns regarding all the new road layout, but when the petition was started at the beginning of June our main aim at the time was to have someone permanently assisting the children. We now know that an urgent safety audit is to be undertake and then another in September when the children go back to school.
I hope the safety audit is carried out promptly....you need to ask to see the terms of reference for it.
[quote][p][bold]Tink07[/bold] wrote: Hackbridge is NOT a safer place now that the works have been "completed". But have they been completed .??..they have yet to put in the yellow lines on Hackbridge road outside sainsburys. Photos have been taken this week of 1. A council dustbin vehicle pulling up on the courtesy crossing that the lollipop officer was on duty assisting CHILDREN across the road on Tuesday. Until the yellow lines are put in outside sainsburys vehicles are not breaking any laws .. A little common sense wouldn't go amiss! But actually pulling up on one of the new crossings ... Come on now !! 2. Another vehicle yesterday PARKED! On one of the courtesy crossings to go into the shop. 3. A taxi driver pulled up on one of the crossings to let his passenger out to visit the shop!! All photos have been sent to sutton council. As I said in my previous comment. A petition of over 450 signatures has been submitted to sutton council to have a lollipop officer permanently assisting our children safety to and from school. I know there are a lot of concerns regarding all the new road layout, but when the petition was started at the beginning of June our main aim at the time was to have someone permanently assisting the children. We now know that an urgent safety audit is to be undertake and then another in September when the children go back to school.[/p][/quote]I hope the safety audit is carried out promptly....you need to ask to see the terms of reference for it. Giles C
  • Score: 2

11:53am Fri 25 Jul 14

jinglethorpe says...

Whilst I recognise that Hackbridge needed some TLC and traffic calming measures, I find it difficult to grasp the level of incompetence displayed by whoever designed, agreed and implemented this ‘improvement’. And I don't appreciate repeatedly being informed that 500 or so people attended the consultations so that makes it OK and we shouldn't be complaining.

In addition to the length of time these 'improvements' have taken – i.e. it now seems to be running 3 months over the original deadline for completion – there appears to be so many ill thought out ideas included that it would be laughable if it wasn’t so dangerous.

The removal of the zebra crossings and inclusion of the relaxed ‘courtesy’ crossings is an accident waiting to happen. To those who do not know the area and are not aware of the new ‘shared’ road layout, the crossings will appear to be merely some kind of traffic calming measure; they look like standard road humps that have been block paved. I have just driven through there, and people appear to have taken to running across the road (whether the traffic stops or not). How will an elderly or disabled person manage this, when able-bodied folk are having problems?

Do the designers/LBS live in a bubble and think that changing the road layout and putting in some flowers and ‘rain gardens’ will turn the area into a blissful utopia where everyone walks/skips everywhere and car drivers continuously make eye contact and smile at passing pedestrians?!

Additionally, from the information that was provided at the consultation process, I understood that the road surface would be red and the ‘crossings’ white. Well that doesn’t seem to have gone to plan either does it - the ‘crossings’ are grey and the road surface is certainly not red.

As for the ‘roundall’ (not sure it that’s spelt correctly). This, without doubt, needs to be replaced with a normal mini-roundabout, with stop/give way lines and raised edges to ensure drivers use it as it was intended. If you’re driving/cycling from Wallington to Mitcham and you use the ‘roundall’ as intended, it is highly likely that the person travelling behind you will think that you’re turning left into Hackbridge Road and attempt to pass you, thereby causing an accident. The ‘roundall’ appears to be either in the wrong place or the pavement outside the tile shop has been extended out at such an awkward angle that it is encroaching on the road.

Next, onto the road markings – or lack of them. Over the past couple of days, yellow lines have been painted down one side of Elm Road; why did they not paint some outside Sainsburys at the same time? Why have they still not installed time-limited parking anywhere to stop all-day commuter parking (this should include Elm Road)? How are they going to stop people from parking on the ‘crossings’? I suggest they paint white ‘zebra’ markings on each of them, as that will ensure they are clearly crossings.

Exposed electrical cable – Near the entrance/exit of Centrale there are a couple of roadwork safety barriers, they’ve been there for several weeks. These are there to cover an exposed mains electrical cable that it sticking up several inches out of the tarmac. Someone posted a pic on Twitter recently, and Tom Brake has responded saying he will contact the Council, but it was still like it this morning. This is a potential Health & Safety issue and should be a priority.

Cycle lane – why bother including a cycle lane across the new bridge and then narrow the road so drastically on the Hackbridge side - why they didn’t just continue it? I suspect someone will say that once Felnex is developed there will be provision for cycling through there – but what if I just want to cycle straight up the London Road; I don’t want to take the long way round, through Felnex and then via the supposed contraflow that will be going up Elm Road.

As for the person who believes that we should “keep some balance in our comments and show a little gratefulness” – if we believe that something is badly designed, dangerous to all who use it and running 3 months over schedule, I think we have the right to make our feelings heard. Why should we just sit back and accept what we don’t want and don’t like?
Whilst I recognise that Hackbridge needed some TLC and traffic calming measures, I find it difficult to grasp the level of incompetence displayed by whoever designed, agreed and implemented this ‘improvement’. And I don't appreciate repeatedly being informed that 500 or so people attended the consultations so that makes it OK and we shouldn't be complaining. In addition to the length of time these 'improvements' have taken – i.e. it now seems to be running 3 months over the original deadline for completion – there appears to be so many ill thought out ideas included that it would be laughable if it wasn’t so dangerous. The removal of the zebra crossings and inclusion of the relaxed ‘courtesy’ crossings is an accident waiting to happen. To those who do not know the area and are not aware of the new ‘shared’ road layout, the crossings will appear to be merely some kind of traffic calming measure; they look like standard road humps that have been block paved. I have just driven through there, and people appear to have taken to running across the road (whether the traffic stops or not). How will an elderly or disabled person manage this, when able-bodied folk are having problems? Do the designers/LBS live in a bubble and think that changing the road layout and putting in some flowers and ‘rain gardens’ will turn the area into a blissful utopia where everyone walks/skips everywhere and car drivers continuously make eye contact and smile at passing pedestrians?! Additionally, from the information that was provided at the consultation process, I understood that the road surface would be red and the ‘crossings’ white. Well that doesn’t seem to have gone to plan either does it - the ‘crossings’ are grey and the road surface is certainly not red. As for the ‘roundall’ (not sure it that’s spelt correctly). This, without doubt, needs to be replaced with a normal mini-roundabout, with stop/give way lines and raised edges to ensure drivers use it as it was intended. If you’re driving/cycling from Wallington to Mitcham and you use the ‘roundall’ as intended, it is highly likely that the person travelling behind you will think that you’re turning left into Hackbridge Road and attempt to pass you, thereby causing an accident. The ‘roundall’ appears to be either in the wrong place or the pavement outside the tile shop has been extended out at such an awkward angle that it is encroaching on the road. Next, onto the road markings – or lack of them. Over the past couple of days, yellow lines have been painted down one side of Elm Road; why did they not paint some outside Sainsburys at the same time? Why have they still not installed time-limited parking anywhere to stop all-day commuter parking (this should include Elm Road)? How are they going to stop people from parking on the ‘crossings’? I suggest they paint white ‘zebra’ markings on each of them, as that will ensure they are clearly crossings. Exposed electrical cable – Near the entrance/exit of Centrale there are a couple of roadwork safety barriers, they’ve been there for several weeks. These are there to cover an exposed mains electrical cable that it sticking up several inches out of the tarmac. Someone posted a pic on Twitter recently, and Tom Brake has responded saying he will contact the Council, but it was still like it this morning. This is a potential Health & Safety issue and should be a priority. Cycle lane – why bother including a cycle lane across the new bridge and then narrow the road so drastically on the Hackbridge side - why they didn’t just continue it? I suspect someone will say that once Felnex is developed there will be provision for cycling through there – but what if I just want to cycle straight up the London Road; I don’t want to take the long way round, through Felnex and then via the supposed contraflow that will be going up Elm Road. As for the person who believes that we should “keep some balance in our comments and show a little gratefulness” – if we believe that something is badly designed, dangerous to all who use it and running 3 months over schedule, I think we have the right to make our feelings heard. Why should we just sit back and accept what we don’t want and don’t like? jinglethorpe
  • Score: 7

12:05pm Fri 25 Jul 14

JMA2014 says...

I attended the 'consultation' exhibition in Centrale last year and concerns about the removal of the zebra crossings were raised both by me and other residents at the time. Our views counted for nothing.
I attended the 'consultation' exhibition in Centrale last year and concerns about the removal of the zebra crossings were raised both by me and other residents at the time. Our views counted for nothing. JMA2014
  • Score: 5

1:00pm Fri 25 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

jinglethorpe wrote:
Whilst I recognise that Hackbridge needed some TLC and traffic calming measures, I find it difficult to grasp the level of incompetence displayed by whoever designed, agreed and implemented this ‘improvement’. And I don't appreciate repeatedly being informed that 500 or so people attended the consultations so that makes it OK and we shouldn't be complaining.

In addition to the length of time these 'improvements' have taken – i.e. it now seems to be running 3 months over the original deadline for completion – there appears to be so many ill thought out ideas included that it would be laughable if it wasn’t so dangerous.

The removal of the zebra crossings and inclusion of the relaxed ‘courtesy’ crossings is an accident waiting to happen. To those who do not know the area and are not aware of the new ‘shared’ road layout, the crossings will appear to be merely some kind of traffic calming measure; they look like standard road humps that have been block paved. I have just driven through there, and people appear to have taken to running across the road (whether the traffic stops or not). How will an elderly or disabled person manage this, when able-bodied folk are having problems?

Do the designers/LBS live in a bubble and think that changing the road layout and putting in some flowers and ‘rain gardens’ will turn the area into a blissful utopia where everyone walks/skips everywhere and car drivers continuously make eye contact and smile at passing pedestrians?!

Additionally, from the information that was provided at the consultation process, I understood that the road surface would be red and the ‘crossings’ white. Well that doesn’t seem to have gone to plan either does it - the ‘crossings’ are grey and the road surface is certainly not red.

As for the ‘roundall’ (not sure it that’s spelt correctly). This, without doubt, needs to be replaced with a normal mini-roundabout, with stop/give way lines and raised edges to ensure drivers use it as it was intended. If you’re driving/cycling from Wallington to Mitcham and you use the ‘roundall’ as intended, it is highly likely that the person travelling behind you will think that you’re turning left into Hackbridge Road and attempt to pass you, thereby causing an accident. The ‘roundall’ appears to be either in the wrong place or the pavement outside the tile shop has been extended out at such an awkward angle that it is encroaching on the road.

Next, onto the road markings – or lack of them. Over the past couple of days, yellow lines have been painted down one side of Elm Road; why did they not paint some outside Sainsburys at the same time? Why have they still not installed time-limited parking anywhere to stop all-day commuter parking (this should include Elm Road)? How are they going to stop people from parking on the ‘crossings’? I suggest they paint white ‘zebra’ markings on each of them, as that will ensure they are clearly crossings.

Exposed electrical cable – Near the entrance/exit of Centrale there are a couple of roadwork safety barriers, they’ve been there for several weeks. These are there to cover an exposed mains electrical cable that it sticking up several inches out of the tarmac. Someone posted a pic on Twitter recently, and Tom Brake has responded saying he will contact the Council, but it was still like it this morning. This is a potential Health & Safety issue and should be a priority.

Cycle lane – why bother including a cycle lane across the new bridge and then narrow the road so drastically on the Hackbridge side - why they didn’t just continue it? I suspect someone will say that once Felnex is developed there will be provision for cycling through there – but what if I just want to cycle straight up the London Road; I don’t want to take the long way round, through Felnex and then via the supposed contraflow that will be going up Elm Road.

As for the person who believes that we should “keep some balance in our comments and show a little gratefulness” – if we believe that something is badly designed, dangerous to all who use it and running 3 months over schedule, I think we have the right to make our feelings heard. Why should we just sit back and accept what we don’t want and don’t like?
I agree! This dangerous junction needs to be fixed as a matter of real urgency. Other genuine improvements eg Felnex are great; but this junction is anything but. How could the experts have got this so wrong??
[quote][p][bold]jinglethorpe[/bold] wrote: Whilst I recognise that Hackbridge needed some TLC and traffic calming measures, I find it difficult to grasp the level of incompetence displayed by whoever designed, agreed and implemented this ‘improvement’. And I don't appreciate repeatedly being informed that 500 or so people attended the consultations so that makes it OK and we shouldn't be complaining. In addition to the length of time these 'improvements' have taken – i.e. it now seems to be running 3 months over the original deadline for completion – there appears to be so many ill thought out ideas included that it would be laughable if it wasn’t so dangerous. The removal of the zebra crossings and inclusion of the relaxed ‘courtesy’ crossings is an accident waiting to happen. To those who do not know the area and are not aware of the new ‘shared’ road layout, the crossings will appear to be merely some kind of traffic calming measure; they look like standard road humps that have been block paved. I have just driven through there, and people appear to have taken to running across the road (whether the traffic stops or not). How will an elderly or disabled person manage this, when able-bodied folk are having problems? Do the designers/LBS live in a bubble and think that changing the road layout and putting in some flowers and ‘rain gardens’ will turn the area into a blissful utopia where everyone walks/skips everywhere and car drivers continuously make eye contact and smile at passing pedestrians?! Additionally, from the information that was provided at the consultation process, I understood that the road surface would be red and the ‘crossings’ white. Well that doesn’t seem to have gone to plan either does it - the ‘crossings’ are grey and the road surface is certainly not red. As for the ‘roundall’ (not sure it that’s spelt correctly). This, without doubt, needs to be replaced with a normal mini-roundabout, with stop/give way lines and raised edges to ensure drivers use it as it was intended. If you’re driving/cycling from Wallington to Mitcham and you use the ‘roundall’ as intended, it is highly likely that the person travelling behind you will think that you’re turning left into Hackbridge Road and attempt to pass you, thereby causing an accident. The ‘roundall’ appears to be either in the wrong place or the pavement outside the tile shop has been extended out at such an awkward angle that it is encroaching on the road. Next, onto the road markings – or lack of them. Over the past couple of days, yellow lines have been painted down one side of Elm Road; why did they not paint some outside Sainsburys at the same time? Why have they still not installed time-limited parking anywhere to stop all-day commuter parking (this should include Elm Road)? How are they going to stop people from parking on the ‘crossings’? I suggest they paint white ‘zebra’ markings on each of them, as that will ensure they are clearly crossings. Exposed electrical cable – Near the entrance/exit of Centrale there are a couple of roadwork safety barriers, they’ve been there for several weeks. These are there to cover an exposed mains electrical cable that it sticking up several inches out of the tarmac. Someone posted a pic on Twitter recently, and Tom Brake has responded saying he will contact the Council, but it was still like it this morning. This is a potential Health & Safety issue and should be a priority. Cycle lane – why bother including a cycle lane across the new bridge and then narrow the road so drastically on the Hackbridge side - why they didn’t just continue it? I suspect someone will say that once Felnex is developed there will be provision for cycling through there – but what if I just want to cycle straight up the London Road; I don’t want to take the long way round, through Felnex and then via the supposed contraflow that will be going up Elm Road. As for the person who believes that we should “keep some balance in our comments and show a little gratefulness” – if we believe that something is badly designed, dangerous to all who use it and running 3 months over schedule, I think we have the right to make our feelings heard. Why should we just sit back and accept what we don’t want and don’t like?[/p][/quote]I agree! This dangerous junction needs to be fixed as a matter of real urgency. Other genuine improvements eg Felnex are great; but this junction is anything but. How could the experts have got this so wrong?? ResidentTony
  • Score: 3

1:01pm Fri 25 Jul 14

PeterM says...

JMA2014 wrote:
I attended the 'consultation' exhibition in Centrale last year and concerns about the removal of the zebra crossings were raised both by me and other residents at the time. Our views counted for nothing.
Talking to someone from one of the cycle groups that was consulted, they got the impression that the decision had already been made and that the meetings were just to say that consultations had been made.
[quote][p][bold]JMA2014[/bold] wrote: I attended the 'consultation' exhibition in Centrale last year and concerns about the removal of the zebra crossings were raised both by me and other residents at the time. Our views counted for nothing.[/p][/quote]Talking to someone from one of the cycle groups that was consulted, they got the impression that the decision had already been made and that the meetings were just to say that consultations had been made. PeterM
  • Score: 3

1:24pm Fri 25 Jul 14

jinglethorpe says...

JMA2014 wrote:
I attended the 'consultation' exhibition in Centrale last year and concerns about the removal of the zebra crossings were raised both by me and other residents at the time. Our views counted for nothing.
So they were just 'going through the motions' - how insulting.
[quote][p][bold]JMA2014[/bold] wrote: I attended the 'consultation' exhibition in Centrale last year and concerns about the removal of the zebra crossings were raised both by me and other residents at the time. Our views counted for nothing.[/p][/quote]So they were just 'going through the motions' - how insulting. jinglethorpe
  • Score: 2

1:32pm Fri 25 Jul 14

jinglethorpe says...

ResidentTony wrote:
jinglethorpe wrote:
Whilst I recognise that Hackbridge needed some TLC and traffic calming measures, I find it difficult to grasp the level of incompetence displayed by whoever designed, agreed and implemented this ‘improvement’. And I don't appreciate repeatedly being informed that 500 or so people attended the consultations so that makes it OK and we shouldn't be complaining.

In addition to the length of time these 'improvements' have taken – i.e. it now seems to be running 3 months over the original deadline for completion – there appears to be so many ill thought out ideas included that it would be laughable if it wasn’t so dangerous.

The removal of the zebra crossings and inclusion of the relaxed ‘courtesy’ crossings is an accident waiting to happen. To those who do not know the area and are not aware of the new ‘shared’ road layout, the crossings will appear to be merely some kind of traffic calming measure; they look like standard road humps that have been block paved. I have just driven through there, and people appear to have taken to running across the road (whether the traffic stops or not). How will an elderly or disabled person manage this, when able-bodied folk are having problems?

Do the designers/LBS live in a bubble and think that changing the road layout and putting in some flowers and ‘rain gardens’ will turn the area into a blissful utopia where everyone walks/skips everywhere and car drivers continuously make eye contact and smile at passing pedestrians?!

Additionally, from the information that was provided at the consultation process, I understood that the road surface would be red and the ‘crossings’ white. Well that doesn’t seem to have gone to plan either does it - the ‘crossings’ are grey and the road surface is certainly not red.

As for the ‘roundall’ (not sure it that’s spelt correctly). This, without doubt, needs to be replaced with a normal mini-roundabout, with stop/give way lines and raised edges to ensure drivers use it as it was intended. If you’re driving/cycling from Wallington to Mitcham and you use the ‘roundall’ as intended, it is highly likely that the person travelling behind you will think that you’re turning left into Hackbridge Road and attempt to pass you, thereby causing an accident. The ‘roundall’ appears to be either in the wrong place or the pavement outside the tile shop has been extended out at such an awkward angle that it is encroaching on the road.

Next, onto the road markings – or lack of them. Over the past couple of days, yellow lines have been painted down one side of Elm Road; why did they not paint some outside Sainsburys at the same time? Why have they still not installed time-limited parking anywhere to stop all-day commuter parking (this should include Elm Road)? How are they going to stop people from parking on the ‘crossings’? I suggest they paint white ‘zebra’ markings on each of them, as that will ensure they are clearly crossings.

Exposed electrical cable – Near the entrance/exit of Centrale there are a couple of roadwork safety barriers, they’ve been there for several weeks. These are there to cover an exposed mains electrical cable that it sticking up several inches out of the tarmac. Someone posted a pic on Twitter recently, and Tom Brake has responded saying he will contact the Council, but it was still like it this morning. This is a potential Health & Safety issue and should be a priority.

Cycle lane – why bother including a cycle lane across the new bridge and then narrow the road so drastically on the Hackbridge side - why they didn’t just continue it? I suspect someone will say that once Felnex is developed there will be provision for cycling through there – but what if I just want to cycle straight up the London Road; I don’t want to take the long way round, through Felnex and then via the supposed contraflow that will be going up Elm Road.

As for the person who believes that we should “keep some balance in our comments and show a little gratefulness” – if we believe that something is badly designed, dangerous to all who use it and running 3 months over schedule, I think we have the right to make our feelings heard. Why should we just sit back and accept what we don’t want and don’t like?
I agree! This dangerous junction needs to be fixed as a matter of real urgency. Other genuine improvements eg Felnex are great; but this junction is anything but. How could the experts have got this so wrong??
Don't get me started on Felnex as well. As it's been sold to local residents as a sustainable development, I don't feel that the presence of Sainsburys and Tesco is appropriate. The 'sustainable' tag is a joke.

Additionally, I can't understand why they've narrowed the road so much when the volume of traffic will be increased greatly by the development of so many new residential units. a supermarket and everything else that's going to be included. But hey the flowers look nice don't they, so who am I to complain - I should be grateful.
[quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jinglethorpe[/bold] wrote: Whilst I recognise that Hackbridge needed some TLC and traffic calming measures, I find it difficult to grasp the level of incompetence displayed by whoever designed, agreed and implemented this ‘improvement’. And I don't appreciate repeatedly being informed that 500 or so people attended the consultations so that makes it OK and we shouldn't be complaining. In addition to the length of time these 'improvements' have taken – i.e. it now seems to be running 3 months over the original deadline for completion – there appears to be so many ill thought out ideas included that it would be laughable if it wasn’t so dangerous. The removal of the zebra crossings and inclusion of the relaxed ‘courtesy’ crossings is an accident waiting to happen. To those who do not know the area and are not aware of the new ‘shared’ road layout, the crossings will appear to be merely some kind of traffic calming measure; they look like standard road humps that have been block paved. I have just driven through there, and people appear to have taken to running across the road (whether the traffic stops or not). How will an elderly or disabled person manage this, when able-bodied folk are having problems? Do the designers/LBS live in a bubble and think that changing the road layout and putting in some flowers and ‘rain gardens’ will turn the area into a blissful utopia where everyone walks/skips everywhere and car drivers continuously make eye contact and smile at passing pedestrians?! Additionally, from the information that was provided at the consultation process, I understood that the road surface would be red and the ‘crossings’ white. Well that doesn’t seem to have gone to plan either does it - the ‘crossings’ are grey and the road surface is certainly not red. As for the ‘roundall’ (not sure it that’s spelt correctly). This, without doubt, needs to be replaced with a normal mini-roundabout, with stop/give way lines and raised edges to ensure drivers use it as it was intended. If you’re driving/cycling from Wallington to Mitcham and you use the ‘roundall’ as intended, it is highly likely that the person travelling behind you will think that you’re turning left into Hackbridge Road and attempt to pass you, thereby causing an accident. The ‘roundall’ appears to be either in the wrong place or the pavement outside the tile shop has been extended out at such an awkward angle that it is encroaching on the road. Next, onto the road markings – or lack of them. Over the past couple of days, yellow lines have been painted down one side of Elm Road; why did they not paint some outside Sainsburys at the same time? Why have they still not installed time-limited parking anywhere to stop all-day commuter parking (this should include Elm Road)? How are they going to stop people from parking on the ‘crossings’? I suggest they paint white ‘zebra’ markings on each of them, as that will ensure they are clearly crossings. Exposed electrical cable – Near the entrance/exit of Centrale there are a couple of roadwork safety barriers, they’ve been there for several weeks. These are there to cover an exposed mains electrical cable that it sticking up several inches out of the tarmac. Someone posted a pic on Twitter recently, and Tom Brake has responded saying he will contact the Council, but it was still like it this morning. This is a potential Health & Safety issue and should be a priority. Cycle lane – why bother including a cycle lane across the new bridge and then narrow the road so drastically on the Hackbridge side - why they didn’t just continue it? I suspect someone will say that once Felnex is developed there will be provision for cycling through there – but what if I just want to cycle straight up the London Road; I don’t want to take the long way round, through Felnex and then via the supposed contraflow that will be going up Elm Road. As for the person who believes that we should “keep some balance in our comments and show a little gratefulness” – if we believe that something is badly designed, dangerous to all who use it and running 3 months over schedule, I think we have the right to make our feelings heard. Why should we just sit back and accept what we don’t want and don’t like?[/p][/quote]I agree! This dangerous junction needs to be fixed as a matter of real urgency. Other genuine improvements eg Felnex are great; but this junction is anything but. How could the experts have got this so wrong??[/p][/quote]Don't get me started on Felnex as well. As it's been sold to local residents as a sustainable development, I don't feel that the presence of Sainsburys and Tesco is appropriate. The 'sustainable' tag is a joke. Additionally, I can't understand why they've narrowed the road so much when the volume of traffic will be increased greatly by the development of so many new residential units. a supermarket and everything else that's going to be included. But hey the flowers look nice don't they, so who am I to complain - I should be grateful. jinglethorpe
  • Score: 1

2:18pm Fri 25 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

Maybe the hope is that the sort of residents attracted to the new Felnex homes will have green values and use the station nearby for going into London or Sutton. Or be keen cyclists, as so many people have become over the last four or five years. It's not an entirely unrealistic hope, even though Felnex's green credentials appear more light green than the deep green of the excellent BedZED. Lets get this junction sorted out first, though - experiments are fine; but NOT when peoples lives are at stake.
Maybe the hope is that the sort of residents attracted to the new Felnex homes will have green values and use the station nearby for going into London or Sutton. Or be keen cyclists, as so many people have become over the last four or five years. It's not an entirely unrealistic hope, even though Felnex's green credentials appear more light green than the deep green of the excellent BedZED. Lets get this junction sorted out first, though - experiments are fine; but NOT when peoples lives are at stake. ResidentTony
  • Score: 5

2:31pm Fri 25 Jul 14

Tink07 says...

Giles C wrote:
Tink07 wrote:
Hackbridge is NOT a safer place now that the works have been "completed". But have they been completed .??..they have yet to put in the yellow lines on Hackbridge road outside sainsburys.
Photos have been taken this week of 1. A council dustbin vehicle pulling up on the courtesy crossing that the lollipop officer was on duty assisting CHILDREN across the road on Tuesday. Until the yellow lines are put in outside sainsburys vehicles are not breaking any laws .. A little common sense wouldn't go amiss! But actually pulling up on one of the new crossings ... Come on now !!
2. Another vehicle yesterday PARKED! On one of the courtesy crossings to go into the shop.
3. A taxi driver pulled up on one of the crossings to let his passenger out to visit the shop!!
All photos have been sent to sutton council.
As I said in my previous comment. A petition of over 450 signatures has been submitted to sutton council to have a lollipop officer permanently assisting our children safety to and from school. I know there are a lot of concerns regarding all the new road layout, but when the petition was started at the beginning of June our main aim at the time was to have someone permanently assisting the children. We now know that an urgent safety audit is to be undertake and then another in September when the children go back to school.
I hope the safety audit is carried out promptly....you need to ask to see the terms of reference for it.
Just been informed :
Sutton Council, will be carrying out an interim safety audit immediately. A second safety audit would then be undertaken in September.
[quote][p][bold]Giles C[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Tink07[/bold] wrote: Hackbridge is NOT a safer place now that the works have been "completed". But have they been completed .??..they have yet to put in the yellow lines on Hackbridge road outside sainsburys. Photos have been taken this week of 1. A council dustbin vehicle pulling up on the courtesy crossing that the lollipop officer was on duty assisting CHILDREN across the road on Tuesday. Until the yellow lines are put in outside sainsburys vehicles are not breaking any laws .. A little common sense wouldn't go amiss! But actually pulling up on one of the new crossings ... Come on now !! 2. Another vehicle yesterday PARKED! On one of the courtesy crossings to go into the shop. 3. A taxi driver pulled up on one of the crossings to let his passenger out to visit the shop!! All photos have been sent to sutton council. As I said in my previous comment. A petition of over 450 signatures has been submitted to sutton council to have a lollipop officer permanently assisting our children safety to and from school. I know there are a lot of concerns regarding all the new road layout, but when the petition was started at the beginning of June our main aim at the time was to have someone permanently assisting the children. We now know that an urgent safety audit is to be undertake and then another in September when the children go back to school.[/p][/quote]I hope the safety audit is carried out promptly....you need to ask to see the terms of reference for it.[/p][/quote]Just been informed : Sutton Council, will be carrying out an interim safety audit immediately. A second safety audit would then be undertaken in September. Tink07
  • Score: 4

2:32pm Fri 25 Jul 14

Niki R says...

anonresidenthackbrid
ge
wrote:
I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction.

I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers.

Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.
Hello to all in Mr Brake's office...
[quote][p][bold]anonresidenthackbrid ge[/bold] wrote: I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction. I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers. Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.[/p][/quote]Hello to all in Mr Brake's office... Niki R
  • Score: 5

5:03pm Fri 25 Jul 14

Giles C says...

ResidentTony wrote:
Maybe the hope is that the sort of residents attracted to the new Felnex homes will have green values and use the station nearby for going into London or Sutton. Or be keen cyclists, as so many people have become over the last four or five years. It's not an entirely unrealistic hope, even though Felnex's green credentials appear more light green than the deep green of the excellent BedZED. Lets get this junction sorted out first, though - experiments are fine; but NOT when peoples lives are at stake.
I agree Tony the council need to sort this out..having an experiment on a road that is a main arterial into one of the biggest cities in the world is just plain nuts....
[quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: Maybe the hope is that the sort of residents attracted to the new Felnex homes will have green values and use the station nearby for going into London or Sutton. Or be keen cyclists, as so many people have become over the last four or five years. It's not an entirely unrealistic hope, even though Felnex's green credentials appear more light green than the deep green of the excellent BedZED. Lets get this junction sorted out first, though - experiments are fine; but NOT when peoples lives are at stake.[/p][/quote]I agree Tony the council need to sort this out..having an experiment on a road that is a main arterial into one of the biggest cities in the world is just plain nuts.... Giles C
  • Score: 3

7:52pm Fri 25 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

Niki R wrote:
anonresidenthackbrid

ge
wrote:
I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction.

I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers.

Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.
Hello to all in Mr Brake's office...
niki - have you ever given the lib dems credit for anything (eg BedZED while we are on the subject of hackbridge)? They have screwed up big time on this mad junction; but they don't always screw up. You are like the right wing daily mail playing to the gallery feeding people the anti lib dem lines they crave for; but you are wasting your time because it just plays into the hands of UKIP, whose job you are doing for them. I am still looking out for that elusive comment from you that is not political to its core. This sarcasm at the local MP's expense is just the pits....it may get your comments a few likes but what real purpose did it serve?
[quote][p][bold]Niki R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]anonresidenthackbrid ge[/bold] wrote: I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction. I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers. Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.[/p][/quote]Hello to all in Mr Brake's office...[/p][/quote]niki - have you ever given the lib dems credit for anything (eg BedZED while we are on the subject of hackbridge)? They have screwed up big time on this mad junction; but they don't always screw up. You are like the right wing daily mail playing to the gallery feeding people the anti lib dem lines they crave for; but you are wasting your time because it just plays into the hands of UKIP, whose job you are doing for them. I am still looking out for that elusive comment from you that is not political to its core. This sarcasm at the local MP's expense is just the pits....it may get your comments a few likes but what real purpose did it serve? ResidentTony
  • Score: 0

9:38am Sun 27 Jul 14

Smileycat says...

One further thought - if the pedestrian crossings have been removed because these informal crossing areas are somehow safer, shouldn't then every pedestrian crossing be removed all over the country? I must have missed the government announcement saying that was going to happen... or is it only in Sutton that apparently pedestrian crossings are not deemed to be safe?
One further thought - if the pedestrian crossings have been removed because these informal crossing areas are somehow safer, shouldn't then every pedestrian crossing be removed all over the country? I must have missed the government announcement saying that was going to happen... or is it only in Sutton that apparently pedestrian crossings are not deemed to be safe? Smileycat
  • Score: 4

9:08am Mon 28 Jul 14

Niki R says...

ResidentTony wrote:
Niki R wrote:
anonresidenthackbrid


ge
wrote:
I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction.

I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers.

Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.
Hello to all in Mr Brake's office...
niki - have you ever given the lib dems credit for anything (eg BedZED while we are on the subject of hackbridge)? They have screwed up big time on this mad junction; but they don't always screw up. You are like the right wing daily mail playing to the gallery feeding people the anti lib dem lines they crave for; but you are wasting your time because it just plays into the hands of UKIP, whose job you are doing for them. I am still looking out for that elusive comment from you that is not political to its core. This sarcasm at the local MP's expense is just the pits....it may get your comments a few likes but what real purpose did it serve?
Do I give the Lib Dems credit for anything? No. I loathe their self-serving attitude, the way they try to fool people in this Borough, the irresponsible way they spend council taxpayers money, their betrayals of every value they ever claimed to hold and their contempt and bullying of opposition voices. I'm proud to challenge them, and suggest you look a little deeper than you do at present.
[quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Niki R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]anonresidenthackbrid ge[/bold] wrote: I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction. I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers. Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.[/p][/quote]Hello to all in Mr Brake's office...[/p][/quote]niki - have you ever given the lib dems credit for anything (eg BedZED while we are on the subject of hackbridge)? They have screwed up big time on this mad junction; but they don't always screw up. You are like the right wing daily mail playing to the gallery feeding people the anti lib dem lines they crave for; but you are wasting your time because it just plays into the hands of UKIP, whose job you are doing for them. I am still looking out for that elusive comment from you that is not political to its core. This sarcasm at the local MP's expense is just the pits....it may get your comments a few likes but what real purpose did it serve?[/p][/quote]Do I give the Lib Dems credit for anything? No. I loathe their self-serving attitude, the way they try to fool people in this Borough, the irresponsible way they spend council taxpayers money, their betrayals of every value they ever claimed to hold and their contempt and bullying of opposition voices. I'm proud to challenge them, and suggest you look a little deeper than you do at present. Niki R
  • Score: 0

10:00am Mon 28 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

Niki R wrote:
ResidentTony wrote:
Niki R wrote:
anonresidenthackbrid



ge
wrote:
I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction.

I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers.

Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.
Hello to all in Mr Brake's office...
niki - have you ever given the lib dems credit for anything (eg BedZED while we are on the subject of hackbridge)? They have screwed up big time on this mad junction; but they don't always screw up. You are like the right wing daily mail playing to the gallery feeding people the anti lib dem lines they crave for; but you are wasting your time because it just plays into the hands of UKIP, whose job you are doing for them. I am still looking out for that elusive comment from you that is not political to its core. This sarcasm at the local MP's expense is just the pits....it may get your comments a few likes but what real purpose did it serve?
Do I give the Lib Dems credit for anything? No. I loathe their self-serving attitude, the way they try to fool people in this Borough, the irresponsible way they spend council taxpayers money, their betrayals of every value they ever claimed to hold and their contempt and bullying of opposition voices. I'm proud to challenge them, and suggest you look a little deeper than you do at present.
....to be honest I don't care if what they do is partly motivated by wanting to look good, if their goals coincide with my priorities as one of the boroughs residents. In so far as politicians need to keep half an eye on their popularity, they are "self serving". Politicians who stand up for the little guy can look good by doing so, and might be accused by some people of being self serving....but that does not make them so. I am not a particular "supporter" as such of the Lib Dems, but all too often find myself in the position of defending them from unfair criticism on these pages, which attract those who are unhappy with the Council rather than those who think it does a good job (the silent majority). What things would Niki R do for Sutton if leader of the Council; what's the prescription for the town centre - would improving arts and culture be a priority?
[quote][p][bold]Niki R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ResidentTony[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Niki R[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]anonresidenthackbrid ge[/bold] wrote: I think we should let this stand the test of time. I've been cycling across this junction for 8 years and I find cars are slowing down more than before and it feels safer, particularly at night time. It's been a welcome uplift to what was a ugly junction. I'm saddened at the negative reaction and pessimistic views of my community. I attended a consultation about this redevelopment and was impressed by the effort being taken by the Council to engage residents. They brought in transport experts to explain the design - case studies of where it's worked before. They explained how different elements influence behaviours of pedestrians and drivers. Let's keep some balance in our comments here and show a little gratefulness that the council did decide to allocate some of it's limited resources to Hackbridge, of all places. Hackbridge is looking much better now.[/p][/quote]Hello to all in Mr Brake's office...[/p][/quote]niki - have you ever given the lib dems credit for anything (eg BedZED while we are on the subject of hackbridge)? They have screwed up big time on this mad junction; but they don't always screw up. You are like the right wing daily mail playing to the gallery feeding people the anti lib dem lines they crave for; but you are wasting your time because it just plays into the hands of UKIP, whose job you are doing for them. I am still looking out for that elusive comment from you that is not political to its core. This sarcasm at the local MP's expense is just the pits....it may get your comments a few likes but what real purpose did it serve?[/p][/quote]Do I give the Lib Dems credit for anything? No. I loathe their self-serving attitude, the way they try to fool people in this Borough, the irresponsible way they spend council taxpayers money, their betrayals of every value they ever claimed to hold and their contempt and bullying of opposition voices. I'm proud to challenge them, and suggest you look a little deeper than you do at present.[/p][/quote]....to be honest I don't care if what they do is partly motivated by wanting to look good, if their goals coincide with my priorities as one of the boroughs residents. In so far as politicians need to keep half an eye on their popularity, they are "self serving". Politicians who stand up for the little guy can look good by doing so, and might be accused by some people of being self serving....but that does not make them so. I am not a particular "supporter" as such of the Lib Dems, but all too often find myself in the position of defending them from unfair criticism on these pages, which attract those who are unhappy with the Council rather than those who think it does a good job (the silent majority). What things would Niki R do for Sutton if leader of the Council; what's the prescription for the town centre - would improving arts and culture be a priority? ResidentTony
  • Score: 0

1:44pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Lani51 says...

If this turns in to a slanging match don't you think people will loose sight of the real issues? This is about the lack of respect that TfL/LBS/MP and councillors have shown to the LOCAL RESIDENTS.
If this turns in to a slanging match don't you think people will loose sight of the real issues? This is about the lack of respect that TfL/LBS/MP and councillors have shown to the LOCAL RESIDENTS. Lani51
  • Score: 3

2:08pm Mon 28 Jul 14

PeterM says...

Lani51 wrote:
If this turns in to a slanging match don't you think people will loose sight of the real issues? This is about the lack of respect that TfL/LBS/MP and councillors have shown to the LOCAL RESIDENTS.
Hear, hear.
[quote][p][bold]Lani51[/bold] wrote: If this turns in to a slanging match don't you think people will loose sight of the real issues? This is about the lack of respect that TfL/LBS/MP and councillors have shown to the LOCAL RESIDENTS.[/p][/quote]Hear, hear. PeterM
  • Score: 0

2:48pm Mon 28 Jul 14

ResidentTony says...

PeterM wrote:
Lani51 wrote:
If this turns in to a slanging match don't you think people will loose sight of the real issues? This is about the lack of respect that TfL/LBS/MP and councillors have shown to the LOCAL RESIDENTS.
Hear, hear.
the "slanging match" (which is not quite how I would describe it) is not about this road junction, on which I believe there is only one slightly dissenting voice (not me) out of the 80+ plus posts. On THIS topic the Council deserve opprobrium unless and until they quickly rectify the mistakes that have been made by their partners and themselves.

BUT I find knee-jerk criticism of the Council (almost as some sort of sport!) on every last issue (not just this one) highly damaging to the constructive debate which these comment boards were designed to facilitate. I will stand for what I believe is best for the borough, and not let voting preference colour my opinions.
[quote][p][bold]PeterM[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lani51[/bold] wrote: If this turns in to a slanging match don't you think people will loose sight of the real issues? This is about the lack of respect that TfL/LBS/MP and councillors have shown to the LOCAL RESIDENTS.[/p][/quote]Hear, hear.[/p][/quote]the "slanging match" (which is not quite how I would describe it) is not about this road junction, on which I believe there is only one slightly dissenting voice (not me) out of the 80+ plus posts. On THIS topic the Council deserve opprobrium unless and until they quickly rectify the mistakes that have been made by their partners and themselves. BUT I find knee-jerk criticism of the Council (almost as some sort of sport!) on every last issue (not just this one) highly damaging to the constructive debate which these comment boards were designed to facilitate. I will stand for what I believe is best for the borough, and not let voting preference colour my opinions. ResidentTony
  • Score: -3

11:38pm Tue 29 Jul 14

leapy says...

The primary problem is that the situation exists and no solution is being provided. Information is also not being provided.
The primary problem is that the situation exists and no solution is being provided. Information is also not being provided. leapy
  • Score: 1

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